It's just that, over the past 3 or 4 years, I could open a project, then hit the "close" button on that initial popup window, and it would disappear and not return, thus cleaning up my workspace.
Only recently has that changed to the situation now, where you can't close the window, you can only minimise it.
I never thought to change my process, and try minimising it. Seeing as the "close" button did not work, I assumed the window was "stuck open and on top".
Minimising is fine with me. Takes about the same amount of effort, and gets it off screen. So fine by me.
But for the record, you used to be able to close it with the red "close" button.
Agreed. But I'm happy for time to be spent fixing table importing, "Copy Table", and general memory problems that have crippled both my games I'm working on now.
PhilipCCEncounter Bay, South AustraliaMemberPosts: 1,390
@Armelline said:
Muscle memory means that I, without fail, try to close it every time I open GameSalad.
@GeorgeGS said:
Can you help us understand why minimizing that window isn't good enough?
One does not simply minimize a window on OS X. That's like, so Windows 1998.
@Armelline said:
I think part of the (minor) annoyance is that it hasn't always been this way. [...] Muscle memory means that I, without fail, try to close it every time I open GameSalad.
@GeorgeGS said:
Can you help us understand why minimizing that window isn't good enough?
I'm in the "Hmmm, I don't like it" camp when it comes to this new (odd) window behaviour, I'm not sure why it's now been locked into the screen, but it's just extra clutter, if the argument is that users can minimise the window then I'd say the response would be that in UI design consistency is encouraged for good reason . . . . when window A can be removed by closing it, window B removed by moving it aside, window C removed by minimising it and window D removed by closing it to a small size, you aren't so much removing functionality as just making the process inconsistent, this inconsistency introduces fractional delays (close one window, minimize another, 'OK' a third, is fractionally slower than the same constant process for closing each - for example Cmd W, Cmd W, Cmd W in quick succession).
Further this small change adds to the growing GS start up clutter, you know when you open up a piece of junky freeware and 7 advertisements (with at least 4 for slots games) open up in separate windows . . . that screams 'cheap' to users unfamiliar with the software . . . GS is nowhere near that, but it's going that way, Welcome to GS window (which doesn't respond to standard close window commands like Cmd W, you have to mouse to the 'Continue to GS' button), then the 'projects' window (which now cannot be closed at all), then usually (for me at least) a window telling you that you need to update pops up (which - inconsistent with the others - does respond to Cmd W), then back to the projects window . . .
. . . and while I'm ranting why, in 2015 does the main GS application default to such a small size - could it not detect the screen size, or remember the last size used, I know of no other piece of software that opens up to such an oddly small size, having to expand the window is a trivial piece of work for the user, having to close / minimise / 'ok' various pop up windows is equally trivial, not being able to set a preference for a default project size is another trivial task, but all these clicks and drag downs and closing of windows soon adds up, in fact I would say GameSalad's greatest weakness is not the lack of certain features, but its interface that seems to actively work against you.
Why would anyone want to start a new iPad project on - for example - a 27" monitor to have the application open up in a small window with just a small part of the iPad project visible, why would someone want to open up a tiny attributes list but only be shown a few of the available options and have the others hidden below and need to be scrolled to, another trivial task, just another extra flick of the scroll wheel or drag of the tiny scroll bar - unfortunately this UI/UX characteristic carries on throughout all of GameSalad, so you spend a lot of your time making all these pointless moves that other software actively designs out of the UI/UX.
As Armelline says . . .
@Armelline said:
Muscle memory means that I, without fail, try to close it every time I open GameSalad.
Yep, I spend all day opening and closing windows (I'm a burglar ), so habit means you often 'trip' over this oddly stuck window, again, no big deal, just another small move added to the list, it's like a single fly isn't going to kill you, buzzing around your head on a sunny day, but 140 of them will eventually piss you off.
@GeorgeGS said:
I don't think it's a policy issue so much as that's the way it always has been . . .
It's never been like this before, it's only recently been made a permanent fixture (post 12.X)
So, your question: "can you help us understand why minimizing that window isn't good enough?"
It's inconsistent behaviour, like one particular window needing to be closed with Shift-Cmd-U, where everything else works with Cmd W, it breaks flow. It also adds -trivially - (just another fly added to the 140 buzzing around your head) - to the already taxing interface, and like all the other UI idiosyncraticies is seems entirely reasonless . . . and finally under the new regime, the new push forward, is 'good enough' the direction you want to be going in ?
@Socks said:
It's never been like this before, it's only recently been made a permeant fixture (post 12.X)
I didn't know that it was a new thing. I said I'll ask why.
I'm new to using and working on Creator, so I may not know all the history behind things and I will ask questions that may leave you thinking "How did he not know that?!?" The alternative is I don't ask because I don't want to feel silly, but then things might not get fixed.
is 'good enough' the direction you want to be going in ?
No, but when considering issues that are completely preventing people from publishing or working on their games versus a window that can be hidden I'll choose to work on the game breaking issues first every time. The reason I asked was because I wanted to know if the issue was preventing someone from working versus just being in the way.
All good @GeorgeGS It's good for you to ask for any clarification!
It's always nice when someone from GS seems to be paying attention listening, thinking about the issues, and engaging. So thanks! It's so much better than us being left in the dark and not sure whether something is being looked at at all.
@GeorgeGS said:
I didn't know that it was a new thing. I said I'll ask why.
Yeah, sorry I didn't spot the post where you said that before posing my rant !
@GeorgeGS said:
I'm new to using and working on Creator, so I may not know all the history behind things and I will ask questions that may leave you thinking "How did he not know that?!?" The alternative is I don't ask because I don't want to feel silly, but then things might not get fixed.
Don't worry, we'll keep complaining about these things until you want to want to have us whacked.
@GeorgeGS said:
{Good enough} No, but when considering issues that are completely preventing people from publishing or working on their games versus a window that can be hidden I'll choose to work on the game breaking issues first every time.
Absolutely agree ! My comment was in the context of something that GS has added to GameSalad, something GameSalad had taken the time to implement, something that not only seems reasonless (although it might be that I am just unaware of why this was done) but also just adds (fractionally!!) to an already 'sticky' UI/UX. I think Codewizard mentioned in the past why this was done (I think), but I forget why, but anyhow, ignore me, I just jump at any opportunity to rant about the interface, I spend all day fighting the GameSalad interface and it beats me every time, so I like to kick back at it sometimes.
It can be tempting to think that if GS has time for Template Tuesday and making Free Art Assets and GameSalad Academy and giving the Publishing Portal a facelift and so on and even time to implement the very fixed window we were discussing (none of which were addressing things that were completely preventing people from publishing or working on their games) that they'd have time to address something like this, but I appreciate that it's a trivial thing, and like you say there is a very simple workaround.
@GeorgeGS said:
The reason I asked was because I wanted to know if the issue was preventing someone from working versus just being in the way.
No, it's not going to prevent anyone from working, it's not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
@Lovejoy did u published any thing to Android and Amazon,Amazon showing binary not supported for any device and in Android flickering in scene 1 and taking too long to load next scene and crashing
This one thing on its own is not an issue in itself, but since it joins the swarm of flies, the overall effect can be felt.
At the end of the day you have to remember what GS Creator is made for. It isn't an app for a boring task. It is here to unlock creativity, to enable people to be creative and have fun, to make games.
Creativity can be a volatile thing for some people, and they need to be in the right frame of mind. And this swarm of flies can kill that in you sometimes.
It's a small thing, yes. But even small things matter.
I've wondered about the initial GS pop-up window too. I've minimized it as well but let's think for a second...why have it at all after you start GS and open your project, or start a new one? Oh, that's right, all software has this feature. NOT.
For now, minimizing is good enough, but why should we have to in the first place?
I agree, there are bigger fish to fry, yet a simple thing like this should be taken care of. If there is no point in having it, and there isn't, then get rid of it. And, because it has always been like that doesn't cut it.
@Pesto I'd hate to see it gone forever. About 50% of the time I launch my game from the recent games list. I find that very helpful. The reason I close/minimise it is mainly that I tab between projects a lot, and it gets in the way. But on that first startup, I find it very helpful.
Of course, the recent games list is populated using some kind of casting of bones or other voodoo magic that makes little sense to me, hence 50% of the time instead of 90%
I agree with @GeorgeGS the memory leak issue seems like a tricky problem, and would love to see focus on that. It is the main concern with my project, and would vastly improve the performance of many, especially larger, games. If this gets addressed it removes any of my concerns for using game salad in future projects.
@Armelline said:
Pesto I'd hate to see it gone forever. About 50% of the time I launch my game from the recent games list. I find that very helpful.
I agree entirely. The window itself is often helpful. The way similar windows behave in a lot of software, is that when you select and open a project (either from the list or otherwise), the window automatically closes itself.
@BigDave said:
RevMob banner and interstitial ads no
they did not work?
I just had an app rejected yesterday for RevMob interstitials not showing........Second time. Yet they seemed to work in adhoc........ No time to retest to see what side isn't talking....
My admob interstitials are working and getting approved so I might just make the the simple change and test....... I
I have not tried banners with latest build........
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant I "did" want it to open when the program starts up...that part I personally like to see recent projects, etc... It's just it should close after that (IMO). Similar to when I open AE or other adobe software (or others for that matter).
I was just wondering, does having the window open draw on memory of the computer unnecessarily, or is it not a factor. Just curious.
@Armelline said:
Pesto I'd hate to see it gone forever. About 50% of the time I launch my game from the recent games list. I find that very helpful. The reason I close/minimise it is mainly that I tab between projects a lot, and it gets in the way. But on that first startup, I find it very helpful.
Of course, the recent games list is populated using some kind of casting of bones or other voodoo magic that makes little sense to me, hence 50% of the time instead of 90%
Because the "Recent projects" doesn't always seem to be reliable (it may not show the most recent project, if it crashed for example), I never use it, and always open my project from Finder.
Therefore, that initial GS popup window is basically completely useless to me, unless creating a New Project (which could be done form the top File menu, anyway).
I'm all OK with it existing, and it's OK how it is now, but was better when it could just be "Closed", instead of Minimized. But yeah, whatever really.
@Lost_Oasis_Games said:
I'm still hoping that the playstogether multiplayer option get reactivated in the Mac version.
Since you had retired I didn't want to bring this up but as I see you have an active interest in it still, are you continuing to debugthis alongside GS or have you had enough?
I still have an interest in multiplayer for myself. I will just be reskining the game mechanics or actually doing something new. Should be easy now as I have multiplayer coding pretty much all figured out. But I need to wait until they put it back in. Since the new creator will handle the file it seems to not be allowing me to address new cells I create in the network tables. And there still seems to be an issue with network tables refreshing without a scene change or atleast the display text behavior. Wasn't sure which it was.
GS is aware of the issues I reported and now it's in their hands. If I do find more bugs I will submit them via the bug reporting system. I'm enjoying only focusing on being creative. It was way too much work being the guru..lmao
@Lost_Oasis_Games said:
I still have an interest in multiplayer for myself. I will just be reskining the game mechanics or actually doing something new. Should be easy now as I have multiplayer coding pretty much all figured out. But I need to wait until they put it back in. Since the new creator will handle the file it seems to not be allowing me to address new cells I create in the network tables. And there still seems to be an issue with network tables refreshing without a scene change or atleast the display text behavior. Wasn't sure which it was.
GS is aware of the issues I reported and now it's in their hands. If I do find more bugs I will submit them via the bug reporting system. I'm enjoying only focusing on being creative. It was way too much work being the guru..lmao
Thanks Dave hopefully plays together will come along soon....
Comments
It's just that, over the past 3 or 4 years, I could open a project, then hit the "close" button on that initial popup window, and it would disappear and not return, thus cleaning up my workspace.
Only recently has that changed to the situation now, where you can't close the window, you can only minimise it.
I never thought to change my process, and try minimising it. Seeing as the "close" button did not work, I assumed the window was "stuck open and on top".
Minimising is fine with me. Takes about the same amount of effort, and gets it off screen. So fine by me.
But for the record, you used to be able to close it with the red "close" button.
Ah, ok. I was under the impression it had been like that for a while. I'll poke some people and see if we can make it better.
Agreed. But I'm happy for time to be spent fixing table importing, "Copy Table", and general memory problems that have crippled both my games I'm working on now.
Me too!
One does not simply minimize a window on OS X. That's like, so Windows 1998.
Exactly the same for me.
I'm in the "Hmmm, I don't like it" camp when it comes to this new (odd) window behaviour, I'm not sure why it's now been locked into the screen, but it's just extra clutter, if the argument is that users can minimise the window then I'd say the response would be that in UI design consistency is encouraged for good reason . . . . when window A can be removed by closing it, window B removed by moving it aside, window C removed by minimising it and window D removed by closing it to a small size, you aren't so much removing functionality as just making the process inconsistent, this inconsistency introduces fractional delays (close one window, minimize another, 'OK' a third, is fractionally slower than the same constant process for closing each - for example Cmd W, Cmd W, Cmd W in quick succession).
Further this small change adds to the growing GS start up clutter, you know when you open up a piece of junky freeware and 7 advertisements (with at least 4 for slots games) open up in separate windows . . . that screams 'cheap' to users unfamiliar with the software . . . GS is nowhere near that, but it's going that way, Welcome to GS window (which doesn't respond to standard close window commands like Cmd W, you have to mouse to the 'Continue to GS' button), then the 'projects' window (which now cannot be closed at all), then usually (for me at least) a window telling you that you need to update pops up (which - inconsistent with the others - does respond to Cmd W), then back to the projects window . . .
. . . and while I'm ranting
why, in 2015 does the main GS application default to such a small size - could it not detect the screen size, or remember the last size used, I know of no other piece of software that opens up to such an oddly small size, having to expand the window is a trivial piece of work for the user, having to close / minimise / 'ok' various pop up windows is equally trivial, not being able to set a preference for a default project size is another trivial task, but all these clicks and drag downs and closing of windows soon adds up, in fact I would say GameSalad's greatest weakness is not the lack of certain features, but its interface that seems to actively work against you.
Why would anyone want to start a new iPad project on - for example - a 27" monitor to have the application open up in a small window with just a small part of the iPad project visible, why would someone want to open up a tiny attributes list but only be shown a few of the available options and have the others hidden below and need to be scrolled to, another trivial task, just another extra flick of the scroll wheel or drag of the tiny scroll bar - unfortunately this UI/UX characteristic carries on throughout all of GameSalad, so you spend a lot of your time making all these pointless moves that other software actively designs out of the UI/UX.
As Armelline says . . .
Yep, I spend all day opening and closing windows (I'm a burglar
), so habit means you often 'trip' over this oddly stuck window, again, no big deal, just another small move added to the list, it's like a single fly isn't going to kill you, buzzing around your head on a sunny day, but 140 of them will eventually piss you off. 
It's never been like this before, it's only recently been made a permanent fixture (post 12.X)
So, your question: "can you help us understand why minimizing that window isn't good enough?"
It's inconsistent behaviour, like one particular window needing to be closed with Shift-Cmd-U, where everything else works with Cmd W, it breaks flow. It also adds -trivially - (just another fly added to the 140 buzzing around your head) - to the already taxing interface, and like all the other UI idiosyncraticies is seems entirely reasonless . . . and finally under the new regime, the new push forward, is 'good enough' the direction you want to be going in ?
Every time.
I didn't know that it was a new thing. I said I'll ask why.
I'm new to using and working on Creator, so I may not know all the history behind things and I will ask questions that may leave you thinking "How did he not know that?!?" The alternative is I don't ask because I don't want to feel silly, but then things might not get fixed.
No, but when considering issues that are completely preventing people from publishing or working on their games versus a window that can be hidden I'll choose to work on the game breaking issues first every time. The reason I asked was because I wanted to know if the issue was preventing someone from working versus just being in the way.
All good @GeorgeGS It's good for you to ask for any clarification!
It's always nice when someone from GS seems to be paying attention listening, thinking about the issues, and engaging. So thanks! It's so much better than us being left in the dark and not sure whether something is being looked at at all.
D/P
Yeah, sorry I didn't spot the post where you said that before posing my rant !
Don't worry, we'll keep complaining about these things until you want to want to have us whacked.
Absolutely agree ! My comment was in the context of something that GS has added to GameSalad, something GameSalad had taken the time to implement, something that not only seems reasonless (although it might be that I am just unaware of why this was done) but also just adds (fractionally!!) to an already 'sticky' UI/UX. I think Codewizard mentioned in the past why this was done (I think), but I forget why, but anyhow, ignore me, I just jump at any opportunity to rant about the interface, I spend all day fighting the GameSalad interface and it beats me every time, so I like to kick back at it sometimes.
It can be tempting to think that if GS has time for Template Tuesday and making Free Art Assets and GameSalad Academy and giving the Publishing Portal a facelift and so on and even time to implement the very fixed window we were discussing (none of which were addressing things that were completely preventing people from publishing or working on their games) that they'd have time to address something like this, but I appreciate that it's a trivial thing, and like you say there is a very simple workaround.
No, it's not going to prevent anyone from working, it's not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
RevMob banner and interstitial ads no
they did not work?
My Apps
https://itunes.apple.com/de/artist/david-zobrist/id733552276
https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=David+Zobrist&hl=de
The revmob banners weren't working.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
@Lovejoy true! i somehow read admob instead of rev mob, panic mode off
My Apps
https://itunes.apple.com/de/artist/david-zobrist/id733552276
https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=David+Zobrist&hl=de
@Lovejoy did u published any thing to Android and Amazon,Amazon showing binary not supported for any device and in Android flickering in scene 1 and taking too long to load next scene and crashing
@GeorgeGS , I really like @Socks ' example with flies.
This one thing on its own is not an issue in itself, but since it joins the swarm of flies, the overall effect can be felt.
At the end of the day you have to remember what GS Creator is made for. It isn't an app for a boring task. It is here to unlock creativity, to enable people to be creative and have fun, to make games.
Creativity can be a volatile thing for some people, and they need to be in the right frame of mind. And this swarm of flies can kill that in you sometimes.
It's a small thing, yes. But even small things matter.
I've wondered about the initial GS pop-up window too. I've minimized it as well but let's think for a second...why have it at all after you start GS and open your project, or start a new one? Oh, that's right, all software has this feature. NOT.
For now, minimizing is good enough, but why should we have to in the first place?
I agree, there are bigger fish to fry, yet a simple thing like this should be taken care of. If there is no point in having it, and there isn't, then get rid of it. And, because it has always been like that doesn't cut it.
@Pesto I'd hate to see it gone forever. About 50% of the time I launch my game from the recent games list. I find that very helpful. The reason I close/minimise it is mainly that I tab between projects a lot, and it gets in the way. But on that first startup, I find it very helpful.
Of course, the recent games list is populated using some kind of casting of bones or other voodoo magic that makes little sense to me, hence 50% of the time instead of 90%
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
I agree with @GeorgeGS the memory leak issue seems like a tricky problem, and would love to see focus on that. It is the main concern with my project, and would vastly improve the performance of many, especially larger, games. If this gets addressed it removes any of my concerns for using game salad in future projects.
www.rossmanbrosgames.com
I agree entirely. The window itself is often helpful. The way similar windows behave in a lot of software, is that when you select and open a project (either from the list or otherwise), the window automatically closes itself.
I just had an app rejected yesterday for RevMob interstitials not showing........Second time. Yet they seemed to work in adhoc........ No time to retest to see what side isn't talking....
My admob interstitials are working and getting approved so I might just make the the simple change and test....... I
I have not tried banners with latest build........
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant I "did" want it to open when the program starts up...that part I personally like to see recent projects, etc... It's just it should close after that (IMO). Similar to when I open AE or other adobe software (or others for that matter).
I was just wondering, does having the window open draw on memory of the computer unnecessarily, or is it not a factor. Just curious.
@NimbleBug No i haven't published anything lately, i will in a few days though.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
Because the "Recent projects" doesn't always seem to be reliable (it may not show the most recent project, if it crashed for example), I never use it, and always open my project from Finder.
Therefore, that initial GS popup window is basically completely useless to me, unless creating a New Project (which could be done form the top File menu, anyway).
I'm all OK with it existing, and it's OK how it is now, but was better when it could just be "Closed", instead of Minimized. But yeah, whatever really.
I'm still hoping that the playstogether multiplayer option get reactivated in the Mac version.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
Since you had retired I didn't want to bring this up but as I see you have an active interest in it still, are you continuing to debugthis alongside GS or have you had enough?
Damien
I still have an interest in multiplayer for myself. I will just be reskining the game mechanics or actually doing something new. Should be easy now as I have multiplayer coding pretty much all figured out. But I need to wait until they put it back in. Since the new creator will handle the file it seems to not be allowing me to address new cells I create in the network tables. And there still seems to be an issue with network tables refreshing without a scene change or atleast the display text behavior. Wasn't sure which it was.
GS is aware of the issues I reported and now it's in their hands. If I do find more bugs I will submit them via the bug reporting system. I'm enjoying only focusing on being creative. It was way too much work being the guru..lmao
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
Thanks Dave hopefully plays together will come along soon....
Have the "slow table importing" or the "slow Copy Table behaviour" issues been addressed?
REALLY NEED ALL THESE TABLE ISSUES TO GO AWAY.