I don't mean to get into a theological argument, but I would just like to point out that my words were horribly twisted. Self-interest is to pursue ones dreams, provide for yourself, family and others. I believe that to be a huge responsibility. Being self-interested is not being self-centered. Being self-centered is focusing on making money and material things for yourself, and usually at the cost of your well being and at the cost of others. You can be successful and not focus on money. You can be self-interested and help other people.
I don't get this idea that you have to make less to be pious. When Jesus described the rich man going through the eye of the needle he was referring to the temptation of wealth, and what it does to you. It can magnify every flaw in you if you are not prepared to handle it.
It is always about the intent of your heart. Not what sheet metal you sit in when you travel.
@socks If you're a psychopath, sure it's all in there. If you read it for what it actually says, no there are no such justifications in it.
@LumpApps said:
Might be, but giving privileges too bigger companies knocks out the smaller ones. It should be about game quality, not the biggest publisher. The mobile market was giving the little ones a change but not anymore I guess. Unless you scam your way to the top. Or am I too negative?
We have seen this in the music industry for ages. The quality of music/musicians/writers is less important then the dept of your pockets. And there, faking vocal quality with auto tuning makes it even worse.
All I can say is that I have not seen one small, indie game given a decent feature slot unless it has built up a reputation for being a great product. This won't change and nor should it.
All too often people say "they don't support the little guy". If the "little guy" makes a game that is capable of earning big bucks, Apple/Google will certainly support them. It's just a fact that 99.9% of "the little guy" games are absolute rubbish. Even the crappy titles made by the likes of EA and Gameloft are immeasurably better than the plethora of GS and Corona templates that hit the App Store daily.
I pride myself on making good games but even I can stand back and say that nothing I have created so far is good enough to be front-page featured.
If you want to be noticed, make a stand out game. You can't get by by being good, you have to be great. Angry Birds was Rovio's 50th title. They were a "little guy" when they finally got noticed.
It's a humbling reality but it's nothing to do with being "big or small", it's about the quality of our products. The "big guys" have already proven themselves. And remember, even EA were the "little guys" at some stage
Braydon_SFXMember, Sous Chef, Bowlboy SidekickPosts: 9,273
@POLYGAMe said:
If Jesus cloned my game, I'd punch him. Right in the mouth.
@Brenton222 said:
When Jesus described the rich man going through the eye of the needle he was referring to the temptation of wealth, and what it does to you. It can magnify every flaw in you if you are not prepared to handle it.
That's your interpretation... many will argue that it should be taken literally. Certainly a lot of priests take it very literally and take a vow of poverty. Other evangelists claim that God wants them to be wealthy (and they have no issues flaunting it).
This is EXACTLY why I hate religion... people just pick and choose which bits to believe and which bits that should be taken literally or have some "hidden meaning". Personally, I choose science and logic
@Brenton222 said:
socks If you're a psychopath, sure it's all in there. If you read it for what it actually says, no there are no such justifications in it.
Sure there are, there are justifications for all sorts of fairly appalling things in the bible (as well as the more benign stuff), but of course like you suggest if you're a troubled soul looking for trouble you'll find it wherever you look, but you don't need to be a psychopath to recognise some of the egregious stuff in religious texts.
I've seen loads of crap games getting featured (mostly from big companies). And lots of great games ignored. Not talking about my own stuff now.
We had our Spooky Hoofs moment, so there is hope
And Rovio? That's ages back. With a clone... I don't see them do that again.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
@Socks said:
Sure there are, there are justifications for all sorts of fairly appalling things in the bible (as well as the more benign stuff), but of course like you suggest if you're a troubled soul looking for trouble you'll find it wherever you look, but you don't need to be a psychopath to recognise some of the egregious stuff in religious texts.
Yeah I have to agree here. Christians justified Slavery based on the bible. The crusades where justified with non other that the bible. Modern day terrorism is justified with the Koran. Religion is used every day to justify horrible things.
Now back to the general topic of this thread which most certainly was not religion.
Clones are screwing us over. Big companies getting exclusives have been happening forever. The cool thing is when an xbox exclusive clones a play station exclusive that actually make an attempt to make the game their own.
Apple and google doing this is just their way to ensure some level of quality in the apps they promote and just let everyone else push their stuff out in the mix and die. They get to claim they support indies cause they let you publish to their store. And they don't have to see it cause its buried.
You know now that I think if it as shitty as the store has gotten I think using a publisher might be a better route to go to actually make money. :grimacing:
@POLYGAMe said:This is EXACTLY why I hate religion... people just pick and choose which bits to believe and which bits that should be taken literally or have some "hidden meaning". Personally, I choose science and logic
@tenrdrmer " Modern day terrorism is justified with the Koran." I do not agree with it. There is not any justification of terrorism in koran. No one will use koran to jutify terrorism if he/she is true believer of koran because terrorism is against the koran's concept. koran teaching is peace, patience, respect and love etc.
@itsolbiz said:
tenrdrmer " Modern day terrorism is justified with the Koran." I do not agree with it. There is not any justification of terrorism in koran. No one will use koran to jutify terrorism if he/she is true believer of koran because terrorism is against the koran's concept. koran teaching is peace, patience, respect and love etc.
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
@itsolbiz said:
tenrdrmer " Modern day terrorism is justified with the Koran." I do not agree with it. There is not any justification of terrorism in koran. No one will use koran to jutify terrorism if he/she is true believer of koran because terrorism is against the koran's concept. koran teaching is peace, patience, respect and love etc.
I think what tenrdrmer was suggesting was that some people will appropriate or twist words to suit their needs.
Guys this was really interesting to read. I feel bad for those that have had their IP blatantly ripped off and I hope what Im about to ask is along the right lines.
I'm new to this app making, some of you may have seen that I just released UfoBlaster which was built from the template of Aircraft from gsanimator.
When I looked at the template I first thought to myself, this is a pretty cool, I can work with the structure of this and build something thats got my style. Which is what I did, the game evolved into whats been released now, and I've already got more plans on how to add in levels, bonuses and players.
I've since started working on another game that I'm building from scratch which was my original idea, but knowing its going to take time since its from scratch.
So I guess what Im asking, is this what you all would expect from someone that's used a template? Do you expect them to bring it to a new level that makes it their own?
I know personally I could not release something thats a copy of someone else's work. I've always done this even in my cabinetry business.
One thing I did ensure, is that I gave credit to whomever I obtained content from in the more information page.
Personally, I have never used bought templates, I get the greatest enjoyment out of GS by figuring out how to make things work for myself, and asking questions on the forum when I can't figure something out or find the answer on Google.
Although when I started there were hundreds of little free templates with the Creator and these helped a lot.
@LumpApps said:
Please don't discuss religion here. Or politics. You are wrong and will never get your fellow posters on your side.
I've never thought the idea of discussing religion or politics was to win over someone who might have differing views, about the best thing you can gain from it is to learn and better understand differing views, the real problem with discussions over politics or religion is - as far as I can see - the impulse for people (often not involved in the discussion) to close it down, censor it or otherwise stymie the conversation, you see it everywhere, online, in real life, family get togethers, public life . . . . just about everywhere (except perhaps the church ) . . . you often only have to allude to religion (religion more so than politics) before people start frowning, tutting and generally thinking you've stepped over the line for even being curious, the result is this stunted culture that ensures whenever people do discuss these ideas from differing perspectives it tends to be seen as confrontational.
I'm not religious myself (I'm a theological non-cognativist) but am very interested in religious thinking, but the opportunities to discuss these ideas with theists are far and few between, and on the few occasions the opportunities do arise they are usually stamped out pretty quickly, which is a shame and probably feeds the misunderstandings.
@Socks said:
I'm not religious myself (I'm a theological non-cognativist) but am very interested in religious thinking, but the opportunities to discuss these ideas with theists are far and few between, and on the few occasions the opportunities do arise they are usually stamped out pretty quickly, which is a shame and probably feeds the misunderstandings.
You are right but there are other fora for that. I don't mind talking about other stuff here of a lighter content (like music or whatever) but I know for a fact that there is always someone insulted or what not. I am no cook here so perhaps I shouldn't be even have mentioned or asked this.
@LumpApps said:
You are right but there are other fora for that.
Yep, these conversations tend to get ghettoised, kept out of broader everyday conversation and sidelined to specialist forums, that's part of the problem from what I can see, forums are great, but for a better understanding between theists and non theists you really have to move this stuff to everyday conversation, the pub, the dinner party, the electronics forum, the office party and so on. I'm not suggesting every forum should have a religious sub-forum nor am I saying everyone should be quizzing each other about their theological leanings (or lack of), quite the opposite, I am saying these conversations should be everyday, normal, commonplace as conversations about food or cars, politics or music, they should be left unhindered by censorship (and self-censorship) and allowed to exist like any other conversation.
@LumpApps said:
I don't mind talking about other stuff here of a lighter content (like music or whatever).
I suspect the reason these things might feel 'heavy' to some people ("I don't mind talking about other stuff here of a lighter content") is that they never get aired, people chase away conversations on religion, keep them out of public discourse, so when they do arise they can - to these people - feel uncomfortable and unfamiliar, or even wrong.
If you don't mind talking about other stuff - then do so, but why would you want to stop other people from discussing things you're not interested in ?
I don't mind talking religion or politics personally, but it does seem to inflame so many people. I suspect @Socks is correct. If they were more general topics of discussion people would not get so inflamed so quickly. In my experience though, both topics can bring up a lot of passion from people who believe one way or another and this passion often leads to attacks instead of level headed discussion.
@Socks said:
If you don't mind talking about other stuff - then do so, but why would you want to stop other people from discussing things you're not interested in ?
It's not that I am not interested. I struggle with believe every day. I'm pointing out that these discussions often tend to heat up. I love the way people had parties in the 70s (60s?). I know people where discussing Religion/Politics more when Uncies and Aunties where visiting and it often ended in a fight too. I guess it's human nature. So should we shut up? No, but because it often leads to fights perhaps it should not be discussed here. But we don't fight of course. Never saw that happening here... -cough-
Sorry to hijack it for a moment, but I'm going to go back to the theological debate here for a moment. If you have a questions or response to what I say, I ask that you PM me. Not that I have an issue discussing it in this thread, but I'd rather this be my only contribution to straying this thread from it's purpose.
@POLYGAMe You are right. Many construe the parables as literal. Generally when you take a parable literally you miss the meaning entirely. It would be similar to as if I were telling you a campfire story with the under-meaning being courage. The story is about some guy defending himself and kills his aggressor in self-defense. If you took it literally you would think I'm telling you to just kill your aggressor. If you understand it as a story and look at the deeper meaning, it is about standing up for yourself. There are differences between parables and the rest of the bible. Parables helped them grasp complex topics. Just like how many of us often use analogies.
The rest of what you wrote ties in with what I'm going to say to @Socks and @tenrdrmer
All of you are right in that people construe what it says. Yea, people can get whatever meaning they want out of it, but that isn't the Bible's fault as much as it is the person who manipulates and picks and chooses what supports their belief. Keep in mind, the Crusades were run by the Roman Catholic church. A church that claimed only it understood the meaning of the Bible. That had popes that were Satanists, Idolaters, Murderers, Pedophiles, and more. They purposely took many verses out of context to support wealth schemes such as purgatory. They added extra books to their bible. They insured no one, but themselves could read the bible, because they understood it meant whatever they want it to mean if no one else could read it. You can't blame the Bible when it is the actions of a few wicked people that construe and take out of context in order to support their ambitions. Hitler claimed he was doing God's work, but where is that actually supported? You can't blame God and the Bible for the corrupt and perverted choices of man. Man was given free will after all.
Churches to this day STILL pervert the word to support belief or ambitions. I'll give you a current popular belief that is, Pre-Trib Rapture. You can search over the Bible front to back and you will not find anything about Pre-Trib in there. The verses that are always used are IMPLICIT verses. Meaning the only way you will derive at the conclusion of Pre-Trib when reading it, is if you have the presupposed idea that it is. The most frequent verses used are specifically taken out of context. Take Matt 24:40-43 which is popularly used, then read all the verses before it including verse 29 back to the start of chapter 24. This derives us at the actual problem of the Bible being construed to mean what you want, context. I can open any book in a library, take a phrase out of context, and get it to mean what I want. Same with the bible. It needs to be understood in context for a meaning to have weight. You may even need to understand Old Testament topics to have a grasp of the context on New Testament topics.
As far as the Koran and Bible, they are pretty different. I'll give you a brief difference to look up and you can decide for yourself. Both Jesus and Muhammad encountered a prostitute that was to be killed. Compare the actions and words of these two.
@POLYGAMe Hey man I believe in science and logic too. Funny thing to keep in mind though, science can't be used to prove everything. It's funny that you mention those two because actually science can't prove logic. Interestingly enough, the scientific method can't even prove the scientific method. Just an interesting tid bit. Science and logic are great tools and that's all.
@Socks Yea you are right. People do blow up over this easily, but I'm not sure moving it into everyday conversation will make an impact on making it more comfortable. The issue is most tend to hold onto their worldview. An attack on their worldview is an attack on them. Thus they result in aggravated and heated arguments. I do agree though that if people could get past that and rationally discuss such topics maybe we could get past the censorship of it.
Not attacking anyone by the way. Just wanted to give my 2 cents on common misconceptions. Like I said, if you want to respond and have a discussion I ask that you PM me so we can let this topic roll back on course. If not I suppose this discussion may just continue here until someone blows up and the thread gets closed lol. (To be honest, someone might blow up at me over the Catholic and Pre-trib stuffs first lol)
@POLYGAMe said:
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Yeah, real peaceful... Just like the Bible
In just about anything, including these two books, you can make things seem very different than they actually are by taking stuff out of context.
@itsolbiz said:
tenrdrmer " Modern day terrorism is justified with the Koran." I do not agree with it. There is not any justification of terrorism in koran. No one will use koran to jutify terrorism if he/she is true believer of koran because terrorism is against the koran's concept. koran teaching is peace, patience, respect and love etc.
Although I don't strictly agree that the Koran is peace, patience, respect and love, it certainly doesn't endorse or justify terrorism. The less... forward thinking aspects of Islam are drawn from the wide variety of supplementary texts that are read alongside the Koran. Bad people use Islam to help advance their goals, it isn't inherently bad, no more so than Christianity. If I remember correctly, the terrorists who committed the 9/11 attacks had been given versions of the Koran that had been edited and re-written to support violent ideas that just aren't in the book.
You want violence in a holy book the Bible really takes the cake, particularly the Old Testament.
And to keep it on topic, damn that Mateen guy. What a @%$.
Comments
I don't mean to get into a theological argument, but I would just like to point out that my words were horribly twisted. Self-interest is to pursue ones dreams, provide for yourself, family and others. I believe that to be a huge responsibility. Being self-interested is not being self-centered. Being self-centered is focusing on making money and material things for yourself, and usually at the cost of your well being and at the cost of others. You can be successful and not focus on money. You can be self-interested and help other people.
I don't get this idea that you have to make less to be pious. When Jesus described the rich man going through the eye of the needle he was referring to the temptation of wealth, and what it does to you. It can magnify every flaw in you if you are not prepared to handle it.
It is always about the intent of your heart. Not what sheet metal you sit in when you travel.
@socks If you're a psychopath, sure it's all in there. If you read it for what it actually says, no there are no such justifications in it.
All I can say is that I have not seen one small, indie game given a decent feature slot unless it has built up a reputation for being a great product. This won't change and nor should it.
All too often people say "they don't support the little guy". If the "little guy" makes a game that is capable of earning big bucks, Apple/Google will certainly support them. It's just a fact that 99.9% of "the little guy" games are absolute rubbish. Even the crappy titles made by the likes of EA and Gameloft are immeasurably better than the plethora of GS and Corona templates that hit the App Store daily.
I pride myself on making good games but even I can stand back and say that nothing I have created so far is good enough to be front-page featured.
If you want to be noticed, make a stand out game. You can't get by by being good, you have to be great. Angry Birds was Rovio's 50th title. They were a "little guy" when they finally got noticed.
It's a humbling reality but it's nothing to do with being "big or small", it's about the quality of our products. The "big guys" have already proven themselves. And remember, even EA were the "little guys" at some stage
At least It'd be a perfect clone. :P
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That's your interpretation... many will argue that it should be taken literally. Certainly a lot of priests take it very literally and take a vow of poverty. Other evangelists claim that God wants them to be wealthy (and they have no issues flaunting it).
This is EXACTLY why I hate religion... people just pick and choose which bits to believe and which bits that should be taken literally or have some "hidden meaning". Personally, I choose science and logic
Sure there are, there are justifications for all sorts of fairly appalling things in the bible (as well as the more benign stuff), but of course like you suggest if you're a troubled soul looking for trouble you'll find it wherever you look, but you don't need to be a psychopath to recognise some of the egregious stuff in religious texts.
I've seen loads of crap games getting featured (mostly from big companies). And lots of great games ignored. Not talking about my own stuff now.
We had our Spooky Hoofs moment, so there is hope
And Rovio? That's ages back. With a clone... I don't see them do that again.
Lump Apps and My Assets
Yeah I have to agree here. Christians justified Slavery based on the bible. The crusades where justified with non other that the bible. Modern day terrorism is justified with the Koran. Religion is used every day to justify horrible things.
Now back to the general topic of this thread which most certainly was not religion.
Clones are screwing us over. Big companies getting exclusives have been happening forever. The cool thing is when an xbox exclusive clones a play station exclusive that actually make an attempt to make the game their own.
Apple and google doing this is just their way to ensure some level of quality in the apps they promote and just let everyone else push their stuff out in the mix and die. They get to claim they support indies cause they let you publish to their store. And they don't have to see it cause its buried.
You know now that I think if it as shitty as the store has gotten I think using a publisher might be a better route to go to actually make money. :grimacing:
"I Believe en science" ~nacho libre
@tenrdrmer " Modern day terrorism is justified with the Koran." I do not agree with it. There is not any justification of terrorism in koran. No one will use koran to jutify terrorism if he/she is true believer of koran because terrorism is against the koran's concept. koran teaching is peace, patience, respect and love etc.
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Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Yeah, real peaceful... Just like the Bible
I think what tenrdrmer was suggesting was that some people will appropriate or twist words to suit their needs.
We have gone massively off-topic though.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
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I reckon. Now, where were we? Ah, that's right! Those All Blacks are quite good at rugby, eh?
So when is a clone not a clone?
When it's ajar?
Please don't discuss religion here. Or politics. You are wrong and will never get your fellow posters on your side.
Lump Apps and My Assets
Guys this was really interesting to read. I feel bad for those that have had their IP blatantly ripped off and I hope what Im about to ask is along the right lines.
I'm new to this app making, some of you may have seen that I just released UfoBlaster which was built from the template of Aircraft from gsanimator.
When I looked at the template I first thought to myself, this is a pretty cool, I can work with the structure of this and build something thats got my style. Which is what I did, the game evolved into whats been released now, and I've already got more plans on how to add in levels, bonuses and players.
I've since started working on another game that I'm building from scratch which was my original idea, but knowing its going to take time since its from scratch.
So I guess what Im asking, is this what you all would expect from someone that's used a template? Do you expect them to bring it to a new level that makes it their own?
I know personally I could not release something thats a copy of someone else's work. I've always done this even in my cabinetry business.
One thing I did ensure, is that I gave credit to whomever I obtained content from in the more information page.
Download UfoBlaster on the iTunes store
I doubt that!
@aussiefaz,
Personally, I have never used bought templates, I get the greatest enjoyment out of GS by figuring out how to make things work for myself, and asking questions on the forum when I can't figure something out or find the answer on Google.
Although when I started there were hundreds of little free templates with the Creator and these helped a lot.
It’s not a bug – it’s an undocumented feature
I've never thought the idea of discussing religion or politics was to win over someone who might have differing views, about the best thing you can gain from it is to learn and better understand differing views, the real problem with discussions over politics or religion is - as far as I can see - the impulse for people (often not involved in the discussion) to close it down, censor it or otherwise stymie the conversation, you see it everywhere, online, in real life, family get togethers, public life . . . . just about everywhere (except perhaps the church
) . . . you often only have to allude to religion (religion more so than politics) before people start frowning, tutting and generally thinking you've stepped over the line for even being curious, the result is this stunted culture that ensures whenever people do discuss these ideas from differing perspectives it tends to be seen as confrontational.
I'm not religious myself (I'm a theological non-cognativist) but am very interested in religious thinking, but the opportunities to discuss these ideas with theists are far and few between, and on the few occasions the opportunities do arise they are usually stamped out pretty quickly, which is a shame and probably feeds the misunderstandings.
Love the way this thread veers between religion and cloning / templates
It is almost as if there is a correlation
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You are right but there are other fora for that. I don't mind talking about other stuff here of a lighter content (like music or whatever) but I know for a fact that there is always someone insulted or what not. I am no cook here so perhaps I shouldn't be even have mentioned or asked this.
Lump Apps and My Assets
Yep, these conversations tend to get ghettoised, kept out of broader everyday conversation and sidelined to specialist forums, that's part of the problem from what I can see, forums are great, but for a better understanding between theists and non theists you really have to move this stuff to everyday conversation, the pub, the dinner party, the electronics forum, the office party and so on. I'm not suggesting every forum should have a religious sub-forum
nor am I saying everyone should be quizzing each other about their theological leanings (or lack of), quite the opposite, I am saying these conversations should be everyday, normal, commonplace as conversations about food or cars, politics or music, they should be left unhindered by censorship (and self-censorship) and allowed to exist like any other conversation.
I suspect the reason these things might feel 'heavy' to some people ("I don't mind talking about other stuff here of a lighter content") is that they never get aired, people chase away conversations on religion, keep them out of public discourse, so when they do arise they can - to these people - feel uncomfortable and unfamiliar, or even wrong.
If you don't mind talking about other stuff - then do so, but why would you want to stop other people from discussing things you're not interested in ?
I don't mind talking religion or politics personally, but it does seem to inflame so many people. I suspect @Socks is correct. If they were more general topics of discussion people would not get so inflamed so quickly. In my experience though, both topics can bring up a lot of passion from people who believe one way or another and this passion often leads to attacks instead of level headed discussion.
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It's not that I am not interested. I struggle with believe every day. I'm pointing out that these discussions often tend to heat up. I love the way people had parties in the 70s (60s?). I know people where discussing Religion/Politics more when Uncies and Aunties where visiting and it often ended in a fight too. I guess it's human nature. So should we shut up? No, but because it often leads to fights perhaps it should not be discussed here. But we don't fight of course. Never saw that happening here... -cough-
Lump Apps and My Assets
Sorry to hijack it for a moment, but I'm going to go back to the theological debate here for a moment. If you have a questions or response to what I say, I ask that you PM me. Not that I have an issue discussing it in this thread, but I'd rather this be my only contribution to straying this thread from it's purpose.
@POLYGAMe You are right. Many construe the parables as literal. Generally when you take a parable literally you miss the meaning entirely. It would be similar to as if I were telling you a campfire story with the under-meaning being courage. The story is about some guy defending himself and kills his aggressor in self-defense. If you took it literally you would think I'm telling you to just kill your aggressor. If you understand it as a story and look at the deeper meaning, it is about standing up for yourself. There are differences between parables and the rest of the bible. Parables helped them grasp complex topics. Just like how many of us often use analogies.
The rest of what you wrote ties in with what I'm going to say to @Socks and @tenrdrmer
All of you are right in that people construe what it says. Yea, people can get whatever meaning they want out of it, but that isn't the Bible's fault as much as it is the person who manipulates and picks and chooses what supports their belief. Keep in mind, the Crusades were run by the Roman Catholic church. A church that claimed only it understood the meaning of the Bible. That had popes that were Satanists, Idolaters, Murderers, Pedophiles, and more. They purposely took many verses out of context to support wealth schemes such as purgatory. They added extra books to their bible. They insured no one, but themselves could read the bible, because they understood it meant whatever they want it to mean if no one else could read it. You can't blame the Bible when it is the actions of a few wicked people that construe and take out of context in order to support their ambitions. Hitler claimed he was doing God's work, but where is that actually supported? You can't blame God and the Bible for the corrupt and perverted choices of man. Man was given free will after all.
Churches to this day STILL pervert the word to support belief or ambitions. I'll give you a current popular belief that is, Pre-Trib Rapture. You can search over the Bible front to back and you will not find anything about Pre-Trib in there. The verses that are always used are IMPLICIT verses. Meaning the only way you will derive at the conclusion of Pre-Trib when reading it, is if you have the presupposed idea that it is. The most frequent verses used are specifically taken out of context. Take Matt 24:40-43 which is popularly used, then read all the verses before it including verse 29 back to the start of chapter 24. This derives us at the actual problem of the Bible being construed to mean what you want, context. I can open any book in a library, take a phrase out of context, and get it to mean what I want. Same with the bible. It needs to be understood in context for a meaning to have weight. You may even need to understand Old Testament topics to have a grasp of the context on New Testament topics.
As far as the Koran and Bible, they are pretty different. I'll give you a brief difference to look up and you can decide for yourself. Both Jesus and Muhammad encountered a prostitute that was to be killed. Compare the actions and words of these two.
@POLYGAMe Hey man I believe in science and logic too. Funny thing to keep in mind though, science can't be used to prove everything. It's funny that you mention those two because actually science can't prove logic. Interestingly enough, the scientific method can't even prove the scientific method. Just an interesting tid bit. Science and logic are great tools and that's all.
@Socks Yea you are right. People do blow up over this easily, but I'm not sure moving it into everyday conversation will make an impact on making it more comfortable. The issue is most tend to hold onto their worldview. An attack on their worldview is an attack on them. Thus they result in aggravated and heated arguments. I do agree though that if people could get past that and rationally discuss such topics maybe we could get past the censorship of it.
Not attacking anyone by the way. Just wanted to give my 2 cents on common misconceptions. Like I said, if you want to respond and have a discussion I ask that you PM me so we can let this topic roll back on course. If not I suppose this discussion may just continue here until someone blows up and the thread gets closed lol. (To be honest, someone might blow up at me over the Catholic and Pre-trib stuffs first lol)
In just about anything, including these two books, you can make things seem very different than they actually are by taking stuff out of context.
Chakku
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and back to how much of an #$^@ Mateen is.
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Mateen must've come in here and posted about religion a few pages back so he could sneak away, laughing, and go steal some more.
Although I don't strictly agree that the Koran is peace, patience, respect and love, it certainly doesn't endorse or justify terrorism. The less... forward thinking aspects of Islam are drawn from the wide variety of supplementary texts that are read alongside the Koran. Bad people use Islam to help advance their goals, it isn't inherently bad, no more so than Christianity. If I remember correctly, the terrorists who committed the 9/11 attacks had been given versions of the Koran that had been edited and re-written to support violent ideas that just aren't in the book.
You want violence in a holy book the Bible really takes the cake, particularly the Old Testament.
And to keep it on topic, damn that Mateen guy. What a @%$.
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