Seriously? That's what you get from all this? That we should emulate Mateen? It's not exactly rocket science. Anyone can use bots and shill ratings systems to climb to the top. Rumour has it that's exactly what happened with Flappy Bird and that's possibly why the game disappeared, because he was caught. Same with Mateen... My money is on that he keeps getting caught, which explains his multiple Apple accounts.
If you really think that sort of business practice is something to look up to, I suggest getting out now as you will eventually be burnt BADLY.
Blocky Bird Free by Manteen is from a DBA template called Red Bird which is a copy of my own free Game Blocky Bird, he did change the art from the template but must of liked my Blocky Bird name (i won't be taking any action btw).
Wayne changed the vortex template after POLYGAMe expressed a concern that it was too close to his game.
Karl has recently given us the go ahead via private messages with Wayne.
I wouldn't say I gave you the go ahead... I said I'd give you the benefit of the doubt THIS TIME, as you'd at least made efforts to change the template
@POLYGAMe said:
Rumour has it that's exactly what happened with Flappy Bird and that's possibly why the game disappeared, because he was caught.
There was, as far as I'm aware, absolutely no evidence this was how Flappy Bird got to the top. It was featured on a Youtube channel in a video that got over a million views in a short period. That's how it shot up the charts like it did.
@Armelline said:
There was, as far as I'm aware, absolutely no evidence this was how Flappy Bird got to the top. It was featured on a Youtube channel in a video that got over a million views in a short period. That's how it shot up the charts like it did.
Of course it went viral once it gained traction, that's the whole point! If you want to believe the game was removed because earning 50k a day was "too stressful", who am I to argue?
Of course, no one knows, you could be 100% right... I just smell a bit of a rat
its sad to read the comments of that story. people seem to think he should be allowed to do what he's doing because he found a way to make it work. literally no one in this world has a shred of respect for others anymore. very discouraging to even try to make something new.
@tenrdrmer said:
its sad to read the comments of that story. people seem to think he should be allowed to do what he's doing because he found a way to make it work. literally no one in this world has a shred of respect for others anymore. very discouraging to even try to make something new.
Yup. I'm getting out of iOS dev to concentrate on PC and consoles. Apple and Google are just useless... They really don't care about protecting the developers. I'm building stuff for GameStick ATM, really great bunch of guys and they only select quality titles for their store, whereas any monkey can repackage a template and sell it on Google Play or the iOS App Store. It's just too crowded with crap these days... Unless you're VERY lucky, you just won't get noticed. And then there is Mateen.
Yeah, I've found about 7 or 8 variants. Good to know Mateen is one of the "developers" using that template. LOL.
The thing is, making templates that are complete games and rip off other people's work is a BAD idea for another reason.
Imagine if you'd spent $50 on said template, even if it was just to learn... you modified the art a little, changed the name, and then, a few days after it being available in Google Play it gets pulled for copyright infringement. I for one, would NOT be happy with whomever sold me the template. Really can't be good for the reputation... not to mention the refunds they'll have to give out...
It's a shame though, these idiots who buy and re-release templates clearly don't have a creative bone in their bodies... most of them can't even come up with a new name for the app... sad.
Don't blame the template builders. I have seen people using my templates and making nice spin offs. Others indeed just changed graphics and published. Is that my fault and should I stop having fun building them and make a few dollars while doing so? Yes I make templates based on existing (oldschool) games. For me it's a lot of fun to figure out how the game mechanics can be reproduced. Sometimes I ad something extra, sometimes I leave that to whoever buys it. I take making templates serious and only release when they work good and that often takes weeks if not months of full time building and polishing. I am not really making a quick buck. Some people are excellent artist but no "coders" and templates can be a big help. Sometimes they ask me to add stuff wich is fun too.
So tell me is that wrong? Unethical? I love your games @polygame but they are not highly original either. More cool versions of old arcade games. Nothing wrong with that.
@LumpApps said:
Don't blame the template builders. I have seen people using my templates and making nice spin offs. Others indeed just changed graphics and published. Is that my fault and should I stop having fun building them and make a few dollars while doing so?
I'd probably say yes, if you copy someone's work and make it freely available to others who often just want to cash in on someone else's hard work then I'd say you were partly at fault.
I'm really just referring to copies of existing games, especially games by small independents, where you have a one or two person set up, with all the passion in the world for game making and none of the money, lawyers and solicitors to protect their IP.
The dynamic is simple enough, you just have to imagine you are the victim yourself - imagine I watch your game development on a thread here on the forums, I watch your weekly updates, your videos and see your excitement grow as you near completion of a project that has taken you months or even years, I see the discussions over the name, the logo, the icon, the sound effects, the fact that you spent your holidays working on your brilliant custom score system . . . I follow it all . . . and then great news, only a few days after you announce its release it gets featured by Apple and makes it's way into the top 100 !! Everyone wishes you well except for me, instead I post an announcement in the very same thread, "hey everyone, I've got an exact copy of LumpApps game, it's a fully working replica, right down the that cool custom score system - $25 a copy PM me".
Q: Sure it's a slightly exaggerated example, but honestly speaking how would you feel ?
Someone is taking all your hard work, your blood, sweat and tears, your great gameplay mechanic and cool look, your brilliant sound ideas and your attention to detail, taking it all, packaging it up and selling it to people knowing that some of them will just change the title (and often change it to something very similar in the same font) and change a background here and there and then upload your work as their own ?
I agree that templates are, in general, a great learning tool, but templates that clone other people's work are to me unethical, I can't honestly see how anyone could argue otherwise ?
@LumpApps said:
I take making templates serious and only release when they work good and that often takes weeks if not months of full time building and polishing.
That's not particularly reassuring it's like saying "I'm not going to simply rush out a crude copy of your game, I'm going to really dedicate myself to getting an exact, perfect clone of your game that works every bit as well as your original". That's not the kind of thing I want to hear ! lol.
And, yep, if I were to clone your work and sell it on the open market - and people bought my clone and published it unchanged I would be at fault (at least partially) for the slew of clones diminishing your chances of making an income from your original work.
Just a FYI Manteen didn't buy the Vortex template from us, no idea where he got it from tbh but looking back through our records only 128 have purchased and no one matches Manteens details (IP address, email etc).
People forget when they first started, good chance they downloaded some templates to learn from.
We've made several for the GS team in the past to show punters GS can do angry birds for eg.
We've had loads of hits with people using our templates and many many features on the stores when they put the effort in and change/add.
Templates are a great learning tool and the free ones on DBA have thousands of downloads but there's always going to be a small number of people abusing, that's just life.
@DeepBlueApps said:
Just a FYI Manteen didn't buy the Vortex template from us, no idea where he got it from tbh but looking back through our records only 128 have purchased and no one matches Manteens details (IP address, email etc).
(This is a reaction on your post 2 posts earlier @Socks )That is absolutely not what I am doing. Other then that you are right. I look at games from the 80s. Snake, centipede, galaga for example. What you say is stealing someone's idea and I hate that.
One of my original concepts got published a few weeks after I posted here and published to the app store so I know what you are talking about. I never complaint though because it had another twist. But still am highly suspicious it was "inspired" by my concept.
Anyway, people picking up a template and publishing it without changes is stupid but still I see no harm other then the app store is getting flooded with crap. But that Apples concern.
I would compare it to selling cars. People get killed by idiot drivers. Should they not sell cars?
@LumpApps said:
That is absolutely not what I am doing.
I understand that, the comment is a general one, not particularly aimed at you or anyone, just at the whole concept of clone templates.
@LumpApps said:
I look at games from the 80s. Snake, centipede, galaga for example.
Yep, I don't see much of an issue with taking inspiration from old games, especially games that have had their day decades ago, for me the real issue is with small indies (as I say one or two people teams) who as soon as they see the first glimmer of success have all their hard work essentially lifted straight out their hands and sold on to (let's not mince words here) 'pirates' looking to cash in on their hard work and dedication.
@LumpApps said:
One of my original concepts got published a few weeks after I posted here and published to the app store so I know what you are talking about. I never complaint though because it had another twist. But still am highly suspicious it was "inspired" by my concept.
Yeah, it's not cool, in fact it's depressing to know that even if you do manage to land a hit on the App Store the vultures will soon be circling, lol It's not a problem when you have 80 staff, a massive legal budget and contacts at Apple, you shut these copies down, it's the smaller guys who are at more risk of having their income damaged by the template makers.
@LumpApps said:
Anyway, people picking up a template and publishing it without changes is stupid but still I see no harm other then the app store is getting flooded with crap.
Seriously ? You can't see any harm in someone copying your work and selling it under their own name ?
If you make a game called PhoneRobots™ and it starts to do well for you on the App Store - and after some template maker has cloned your game and sold it on the open market - you start to see numerous clones like PhoneRobo™ and RobbieThePhoneRobot™ and PhonoRobby™ pop up in the App Store - all looking to cash in on your success - can you not see how this would be taking revenue that would otherwise be (deservedly) yours ? People who had done none of the work, designed none of the characters, had none of the ideas or spent none of the long nights trying to work out how get sound files to play from a table - get to enjoy an income from buying a copy of your game. You honestly can't see the harm this might do to someone looking to make an income from game making ?
Some people (braver than me!) have opted to go full-time (StormyStudios comes to mind) making game making their living, their income, the thing that puts bread on the table and pays the bills, can you see how having his work copied and the market flooded with identical games might impact on this income ?
Makes me wonder why Microsoft, Coke, Apple, Guinness, the GAP, Sony or any company don't simply allow their products to be cloned and sold on the open market . . . or why Apple took Samsung to the cleaners over Samsung copying design elements from iOS ? I see no harm other than the market getting flooded with crap.
I would compare it to selling cars. People get killed by idiot drivers. Should they not sell cars?
Given the context (people get killed by idiot drivers), the real question here is not 'should they not sell cars ?' but 'should they not sell cars to idiot drivers ?'
I'd say the answer is yes, they should not sell cars to idiot drivers (or more importantly they should not be allowed to drive them), in fact this has been successfully legislated for and has been policy around the world for decades now, there are systems in place to ensure the roads are not full of idiot drivers, it varies from country to country, but most jurisdictions use driver proficiency tests and licensing to decide who can and who cannot be allowed to drive on the roads.
@Socks said:
Seriously ? You can't see any harm in someone copying your work and selling it under their own name ?
I said my template, not someone else's work.
I must say I am guilty of building a flappy template so you can all hate me for that
Never thought that would be a problem. And didn't think it was harmful for the maker. I had seen many versions of that game before so guessed it was already milked out.
And I am full time too. Mostly giving support. A small part selling assets and templates and the smallest part with games. I hope to one day finish my masterpiece and need to do all the other stuff to make a living. It's all great fun.
@LumpApps said:
I said my template, not someone else's work.
Sorry I didn't see where you say 'my template' (I still can't ?), I just read the bit where you say "people picking up a template and publishing it without changes is stupid but still I see no harm . . " - and given the context of the conversation I thought you were referring to clone templates, so apologies if I misunderstood.
Like I say, I am talking about clone templates, copies of other people's work, I'm not talking about a specific template maker, just the whole concept and culture of clone templates.
@LumpApps said:
I must say I am guilty of building a flappy template so you can all hate me for that Never thought that would be a problem. And didn't think it was harmful for the maker. I had seen many versions of that game before so guessed it was already milked out.
Like I say the harm is that the revenue that would have otherwise gone to the person who had made the game is instead diluted and spread across numerous copies from opportunists who have done little more than buy a pre-made clone and changed a few elements, you don't need to be a forensic expert to see that FlappyBurd™ is cashing on the hard work of the person who made FlappyBird™.
@LumpApps said:
And I am full time too. Mostly giving support. A small part selling assets and templates and the smallest part with games. I hope to one day finish my masterpiece and need to do all the other stuff to make a living. It's all great fun.
I hate templates but LOVE demos. I don't see a problem (and in fact think it's incredibly awesome) that some users out there like to share their own way of solving some common problems. If you're willing to make a demo that shows how to do something that I find useful, I'm incredibly grateful. I'll follow along or dive into the project file and ACTUALLY LEARN something new to bring to my own games.
However, using (and making) templates just for the sake of cashing in on someone else's success is something I want no part of.
Oh well, at least GS and Corona users have no chance of cloning my new game... it's a 3D racer. I'm not making simple, easy to clone stuff anymore... DBA taught me that lesson pretty quickly. Only way to avoid the vultures is make stuff they are technically incapable of recreating.
In all honesty, codestorm was an experiment by myself to see how quickly I could make a decent, fun, endless game that was unique and different. I was actually inspired by Flappy Bird. Not because of its success but just by the fact that it was so simple, yet so much fun. I made codestorm in a day. So I'm not TOO worried about the money or anything, it was never going to be a massive success, nor was it designed to be... just a fun project. But the fact that it was blatantly copied still pisses me off.. It's the principle of it.
EDIT: Actually, codestorm was a success in a way, thinking about it. It was noticed by a console manufacturer (can't say which, as I signed an NDA and I'm sure they don't want a bunch of vultures asking for free gear), who liked it so much they sent me a development console to port it over for them! Didn't expect that and I now have a new outlet to sell my games, so that's pretty cool!
As for Flappy Bird clones, I don't see a problem with them, I even made one (although mine required blowing on the phone to lift a paper dart), but only because the game is no longer available and you are not impacting on the dev's sales... and with its runaway success, it wasn't going to be harmed. Still, I wouldn't have made a clone if the original was still available and I certainly wouldn't have done it without adding a unique approach to the "genre". Targeting games who haven't even had the chance to shine is just bastardry of the highest order and if you have no problem with that kind of business plan, you are a failure as a human being and I'm guessing have very, very few friends.
And also, as Socks said, paying homage to a game that came out 20 or 30 years ago is a COMPLETELY different thing. Even Jeff Minter, one of the best game designers who ever lived does that. He does NOT rip off small time indies (or large companies, for that matter) and redistribute his work for others to do the same. Even codestorm borrowed visual elements from Tempest. That's a completely different thing. People who can't see that are probably not bright enough to be able to build games on their own... hence the templates.
Back to Mateen... Looks like his "fox" game has been removed? Or is that because he sold it on Apptopia. Joke's on him... The amount of cash he had to spend to get to that level in the App Store is WAY more than what he sold the app for... what a loser.
@Adrenaline there is a difference between templates and clones. It's not black and white either. But I see your point. @POLYGAMe that's awesome about the console. Congretz.
Yes there's a difference between templates and clones. There SHOULD be a big difference, but some people blur the line and use one to make the other. That's what we're discussing, isn't it?
@LumpApps said:
Adrenaline there is a difference between templates and clones. It's not black and white either. But I see your point.
POLYGAMe that's awesome about the console. Congretz.
Yeah but if the template in itself is a clone, that's a problem.
As for clones, direct ripoffs suck. But if someone takes a popular game and puts an interesting spin on it, offering up something different to fans of the original game, without trying to steal sales from the original, that's fine in my opinion.
Look at Mr. Flap, a totally unique, and quite brilliant Flappy Bird game that doesn't try to steal the original's thunder, but sits nicely on the shelf alongside it.
I believe a good "clone" should compliment the original game, not try to replace it... which never happens, as players aren't particularly fond of clones.
The problem is, if a clone of an NEW AND UNKNOWN game makes it big, that TOTALLY screws the developer of the original.
Just copying a game, even if you change the visuals, is NOT okay.
@rab127 said:
How did he get the game assets out of the original game?
How did he get his version of the game to the appstore so quickly?
You used to be able to access any game on the arcade's project, assets and all... it was a bug that was stomped out years ago but not before Mateen managed to grab Joe's game. He didn't get it to the store quickly, Dangers Cats is a few years old, which is even more surprising as to why Mateen would wait so long... maybe after this time he thought no one would notice...
I say we all start our own mini GS MateenJam: 'Match 3 Mateens', 'Words with Mateens', 'Clash of Mateens', 'Angry Mateens', 'Mateen Ripoff Saga'.
It's been thrown around so much it is starting to become a verb here on the forums. Every time I see it I imagine a guy in a field or sitting at his computer shaking his fists in the air yelling his name.
Comments
Seriously? That's what you get from all this? That we should emulate Mateen? It's not exactly rocket science. Anyone can use bots and shill ratings systems to climb to the top. Rumour has it that's exactly what happened with Flappy Bird and that's possibly why the game disappeared, because he was caught. Same with Mateen... My money is on that he keeps getting caught, which explains his multiple Apple accounts.
If you really think that sort of business practice is something to look up to, I suggest getting out now as you will eventually be burnt BADLY.
Blocky Bird Free by Manteen is from a DBA template called Red Bird which is a copy of my own free Game Blocky Bird, he did change the art from the template but must of liked my Blocky Bird name (i won't be taking any action btw).
Wayne changed the vortex template after POLYGAMe expressed a concern that it was too close to his game.
Karl has recently given us the go ahead via private messages with Wayne.
Darren.
I wouldn't say I gave you the go ahead... I said I'd give you the benefit of the doubt THIS TIME, as you'd at least made efforts to change the template
There was, as far as I'm aware, absolutely no evidence this was how Flappy Bird got to the top. It was featured on a Youtube channel in a video that got over a million views in a short period. That's how it shot up the charts like it did.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Of course it went viral once it gained traction, that's the whole point! If you want to believe the game was removed because earning 50k a day was "too stressful", who am I to argue?
Of course, no one knows, you could be 100% right... I just smell a bit of a rat
interesting...
✮ FREE templates at GSinvention ✮
✮ Available for hire! support@gsinvention.com ✮
http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/19/how-one-scammer-manipulated-apples-top-charts-to-earn-tens-of-thousands-daily-using-a-10-gamesalad-template/
its sad to read the comments of that story. people seem to think he should be allowed to do what he's doing because he found a way to make it work. literally no one in this world has a shred of respect for others anymore. very discouraging to even try to make something new.
Yup. I'm getting out of iOS dev to concentrate on PC and consoles. Apple and Google are just useless... They really don't care about protecting the developers. I'm building stuff for GameStick ATM, really great bunch of guys and they only select quality titles for their store, whereas any monkey can repackage a template and sell it on Google Play or the iOS App Store. It's just too crowded with crap these days... Unless you're VERY lucky, you just won't get noticed. And then there is Mateen.
I thought this was interesting, 30,000 sold.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/10/fake-android-antivirus-app-developer-virus-shield
https://itunes.apple.com/US/app/id857671514?mt=8
Yeah, I've found about 7 or 8 variants. Good to know Mateen is one of the "developers" using that template. LOL.
The thing is, making templates that are complete games and rip off other people's work is a BAD idea for another reason.
Imagine if you'd spent $50 on said template, even if it was just to learn... you modified the art a little, changed the name, and then, a few days after it being available in Google Play it gets pulled for copyright infringement. I for one, would NOT be happy with whomever sold me the template. Really can't be good for the reputation... not to mention the refunds they'll have to give out...
It's a shame though, these idiots who buy and re-release templates clearly don't have a creative bone in their bodies... most of them can't even come up with a new name for the app... sad.
Don't blame the template builders. I have seen people using my templates and making nice spin offs. Others indeed just changed graphics and published. Is that my fault and should I stop having fun building them and make a few dollars while doing so? Yes I make templates based on existing (oldschool) games. For me it's a lot of fun to figure out how the game mechanics can be reproduced. Sometimes I ad something extra, sometimes I leave that to whoever buys it. I take making templates serious and only release when they work good and that often takes weeks if not months of full time building and polishing. I am not really making a quick buck. Some people are excellent artist but no "coders" and templates can be a big help. Sometimes they ask me to add stuff wich is fun too.
So tell me is that wrong? Unethical? I love your games @polygame but they are not highly original either. More cool versions of old arcade games. Nothing wrong with that.
Lump Apps and My Assets
I'd probably say yes, if you copy someone's work and make it freely available to others who often just want to cash in on someone else's hard work then I'd say you were partly at fault.
I'm really just referring to copies of existing games, especially games by small independents, where you have a one or two person set up, with all the passion in the world for game making and none of the money, lawyers and solicitors to protect their IP.
The dynamic is simple enough, you just have to imagine you are the victim yourself - imagine I watch your game development on a thread here on the forums, I watch your weekly updates, your videos and see your excitement grow as you near completion of a project that has taken you months or even years, I see the discussions over the name, the logo, the icon, the sound effects, the fact that you spent your holidays working on your brilliant custom score system . . . I follow it all . . . and then great news, only a few days after you announce its release it gets featured by Apple and makes it's way into the top 100 !! Everyone wishes you well except for me, instead I post an announcement in the very same thread, "hey everyone, I've got an exact copy of LumpApps game, it's a fully working replica, right down the that cool custom score system - $25 a copy PM me".
Q: Sure it's a slightly exaggerated example, but honestly speaking how would you feel ?
Someone is taking all your hard work, your blood, sweat and tears, your great gameplay mechanic and cool look, your brilliant sound ideas and your attention to detail, taking it all, packaging it up and selling it to people knowing that some of them will just change the title (and often change it to something very similar in the same font) and change a background here and there and then upload your work as their own ?
I agree that templates are, in general, a great learning tool, but templates that clone other people's work are to me unethical, I can't honestly see how anyone could argue otherwise ?
That's not particularly reassuring
it's like saying "I'm not going to simply rush out a crude copy of your game, I'm going to really dedicate myself to getting an exact, perfect clone of your game that works every bit as well as your original". That's not the kind of thing I want to hear ! lol.
And, yep, if I were to clone your work and sell it on the open market - and people bought my clone and published it unchanged I would be at fault (at least partially) for the slew of clones diminishing your chances of making an income from your original work.
Just a FYI Manteen didn't buy the Vortex template from us, no idea where he got it from tbh but looking back through our records only 128 have purchased and no one matches Manteens details (IP address, email etc).
People forget when they first started, good chance they downloaded some templates to learn from.
We've made several for the GS team in the past to show punters GS can do angry birds for eg.
We've had loads of hits with people using our templates and many many features on the stores when they put the effort in and change/add.
Templates are a great learning tool and the free ones on DBA have thousands of downloads but there's always going to be a small number of people abusing, that's just life.
Darren.
He probably nicked the template !?
(This is a reaction on your post 2 posts earlier @Socks )That is absolutely not what I am doing. Other then that you are right. I look at games from the 80s. Snake, centipede, galaga for example. What you say is stealing someone's idea and I hate that.
One of my original concepts got published a few weeks after I posted here and published to the app store so I know what you are talking about. I never complaint though because it had another twist. But still am highly suspicious it was "inspired" by my concept.
Anyway, people picking up a template and publishing it without changes is stupid but still I see no harm other then the app store is getting flooded with crap. But that Apples concern.
I would compare it to selling cars. People get killed by idiot drivers. Should they not sell cars?
Lump Apps and My Assets
I understand that, the comment is a general one, not particularly aimed at you or anyone, just at the whole concept of clone templates.
Yep, I don't see much of an issue with taking inspiration from old games, especially games that have had their day decades ago, for me the real issue is with small indies (as I say one or two people teams) who as soon as they see the first glimmer of success have all their hard work essentially lifted straight out their hands and sold on to (let's not mince words here) 'pirates' looking to cash in on their hard work and dedication.
Yeah, it's not cool, in fact it's depressing to know that even if you do manage to land a hit on the App Store the vultures will soon be circling, lol
It's not a problem when you have 80 staff, a massive legal budget and contacts at Apple, you shut these copies down, it's the smaller guys who are at more risk of having their income damaged by the template makers.
Seriously ? You can't see any harm in someone copying your work and selling it under their own name ?
If you make a game called PhoneRobots™ and it starts to do well for you on the App Store - and after some template maker has cloned your game and sold it on the open market - you start to see numerous clones like PhoneRobo™ and RobbieThePhoneRobot™ and PhonoRobby™ pop up in the App Store - all looking to cash in on your success - can you not see how this would be taking revenue that would otherwise be (deservedly) yours ? People who had done none of the work, designed none of the characters, had none of the ideas or spent none of the long nights trying to work out how get sound files to play from a table - get to enjoy an income from buying a copy of your game. You honestly can't see the harm this might do to someone looking to make an income from game making ?
Some people (braver than me!) have opted to go full-time (StormyStudios comes to mind) making game making their living, their income, the thing that puts bread on the table and pays the bills, can you see how having his work copied and the market flooded with identical games might impact on this income ?
Makes me wonder why Microsoft, Coke, Apple, Guinness, the GAP, Sony or any company don't simply allow their products to be cloned and sold on the open market . . . or why Apple took Samsung to the cleaners over Samsung copying design elements from iOS ? I see no harm other than the market getting flooded with crap.
Given the context (people get killed by idiot drivers), the real question here is not 'should they not sell cars ?' but 'should they not sell cars to idiot drivers ?'
I'd say the answer is yes, they should not sell cars to idiot drivers (or more importantly they should not be allowed to drive them), in fact this has been successfully legislated for and has been policy around the world for decades now, there are systems in place to ensure the roads are not full of idiot drivers, it varies from country to country, but most jurisdictions use driver proficiency tests and licensing to decide who can and who cannot be allowed to drive on the roads.
I said my template, not someone else's work.
I must say I am guilty of building a flappy template so you can all hate me for that
Never thought that would be a problem. And didn't think it was harmful for the maker. I had seen many versions of that game before so guessed it was already milked out.
And I am full time too. Mostly giving support. A small part selling assets and templates and the smallest part with games. I hope to one day finish my masterpiece and need to do all the other stuff to make a living. It's all great fun.
Lump Apps and My Assets
Sorry I didn't see where you say 'my template' (I still can't ?), I just read the bit where you say "people picking up a template and publishing it without changes is stupid but still I see no harm . . " - and given the context of the conversation I thought you were referring to clone templates, so apologies if I misunderstood.
Like I say, I am talking about clone templates, copies of other people's work, I'm not talking about a specific template maker, just the whole concept and culture of clone templates.
Like I say the harm is that the revenue that would have otherwise gone to the person who had made the game is instead diluted and spread across numerous copies from opportunists who have done little more than buy a pre-made clone and changed a few elements, you don't need to be a forensic expert to see that FlappyBurd™ is cashing on the hard work of the person who made FlappyBird™.
"I hope to one day finish my masterpiece"
I'm already working on the template
Haha! Good luck with that. A think a discussion like this is helpful. Keeps my ethics (is that English?) sharp
Lump Apps and My Assets
I hate templates but LOVE demos. I don't see a problem (and in fact think it's incredibly awesome) that some users out there like to share their own way of solving some common problems. If you're willing to make a demo that shows how to do something that I find useful, I'm incredibly grateful. I'll follow along or dive into the project file and ACTUALLY LEARN something new to bring to my own games.
However, using (and making) templates just for the sake of cashing in on someone else's success is something I want no part of.
Oh well, at least GS and Corona users have no chance of cloning my new game... it's a 3D racer. I'm not making simple, easy to clone stuff anymore... DBA taught me that lesson pretty quickly. Only way to avoid the vultures is make stuff they are technically incapable of recreating.
In all honesty, codestorm was an experiment by myself to see how quickly I could make a decent, fun, endless game that was unique and different. I was actually inspired by Flappy Bird. Not because of its success but just by the fact that it was so simple, yet so much fun. I made codestorm in a day. So I'm not TOO worried about the money or anything, it was never going to be a massive success, nor was it designed to be... just a fun project. But the fact that it was blatantly copied still pisses me off.. It's the principle of it.
EDIT: Actually, codestorm was a success in a way, thinking about it. It was noticed by a console manufacturer (can't say which, as I signed an NDA and I'm sure they don't want a bunch of vultures asking for free gear), who liked it so much they sent me a development console to port it over for them! Didn't expect that and I now have a new outlet to sell my games, so that's pretty cool!
As for Flappy Bird clones, I don't see a problem with them, I even made one (although mine required blowing on the phone to lift a paper dart), but only because the game is no longer available and you are not impacting on the dev's sales... and with its runaway success, it wasn't going to be harmed. Still, I wouldn't have made a clone if the original was still available and I certainly wouldn't have done it without adding a unique approach to the "genre". Targeting games who haven't even had the chance to shine is just bastardry of the highest order and if you have no problem with that kind of business plan, you are a failure as a human being and I'm guessing have very, very few friends.
And also, as Socks said, paying homage to a game that came out 20 or 30 years ago is a COMPLETELY different thing. Even Jeff Minter, one of the best game designers who ever lived does that. He does NOT rip off small time indies (or large companies, for that matter) and redistribute his work for others to do the same. Even codestorm borrowed visual elements from Tempest. That's a completely different thing. People who can't see that are probably not bright enough to be able to build games on their own... hence the templates.
Back to Mateen... Looks like his "fox" game has been removed? Or is that because he sold it on Apptopia. Joke's on him... The amount of cash he had to spend to get to that level in the App Store is WAY more than what he sold the app for... what a loser.
@Adrenaline there is a difference between templates and clones. It's not black and white either. But I see your point.
@POLYGAMe that's awesome about the console. Congretz.
Lump Apps and My Assets
Yes there's a difference between templates and clones. There SHOULD be a big difference, but some people blur the line and use one to make the other. That's what we're discussing, isn't it?
Yeah but if the template in itself is a clone, that's a problem.
As for clones, direct ripoffs suck. But if someone takes a popular game and puts an interesting spin on it, offering up something different to fans of the original game, without trying to steal sales from the original, that's fine in my opinion.
Look at Mr. Flap, a totally unique, and quite brilliant Flappy Bird game that doesn't try to steal the original's thunder, but sits nicely on the shelf alongside it.
I believe a good "clone" should compliment the original game, not try to replace it... which never happens, as players aren't particularly fond of clones.
The problem is, if a clone of an NEW AND UNKNOWN game makes it big, that TOTALLY screws the developer of the original.
Just copying a game, even if you change the visuals, is NOT okay.
How did he get the game assets out of the original game?
How did he get his version of the game to the appstore so quickly?
You used to be able to access any game on the arcade's project, assets and all... it was a bug that was stomped out years ago but not before Mateen managed to grab Joe's game. He didn't get it to the store quickly, Dangers Cats is a few years old, which is even more surprising as to why Mateen would wait so long... maybe after this time he thought no one would notice...
I say we all start our own mini GS MateenJam: 'Match 3 Mateens', 'Words with Mateens', 'Clash of Mateens', 'Angry Mateens', 'Mateen Ripoff Saga'.
It's been thrown around so much it is starting to become a verb here on the forums. Every time I see it I imagine a guy in a field or sitting at his computer shaking his fists in the air yelling his name.
@firemaplegames Also, I would probably update the search terms in your app in the meantime to at least help boost the original in the search results.