tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
You guys have no idea what We will have as far as a cut. I highly doubt Kiip is not giving GameSalad a much better deal that the standard dev who just signs up. Why? simple, Volume. GameSalad with Kiip integration means almost instantly quadrupling the number of apps out their with Kiip Enabled. That means more money for Kiip, GameSalad, Us, Etc…..Just chill and wait and see what they are actually offering.
and all I was saying earlier is why complain who takes what if at the end of the day my free game with way more downloads is putting more money in my pocket per download than if I were to offer it at $0.99? I personally would be thrilled.
To be honest. I think Kiip should be paying Gamesalad out of the cut Kiip takes from developers. Just because of like osucowboy18 said. It would be roughly quadrupling the amount of games with them on. Not to mention it also creates large awareness of kiip very quickly so other developers may start turning to them on their non GS games. I think developers are drained of revenue and other fees all over the place from their creative ideas which are actually helping boost popularity of markets and phones in the first place. Take Angry Birds for example. They are losing lots of money by apple taking their 30% when in reality Angry Birds is getting people to buy smartphones in the first place. I honestly think that market places should be taking smaller shares just because they are making tons of money all over the place as is ... shouldn't you be giving developers incentive since they are the whole reason the market is successful in the first place. I mean apple (basically) forces us to program on Mac computers... why not give a developer discount when we purchase the computers or something. Just my two cents.
@gripsocks I don't know if Kiip could give up that much. Maybe a Kiip = 35% GS = 15% Dev = 50%. 15% for GS just having it integrated is incentive. I couldn't see an ad company being ok with giving up Half of their revenue per developer. Even GS making 10% of it is still worth it to GS because it's a recurring income. Once they integrate it and get it working they wouldn't have to do much work yet they would still be making a good amount.
@FallacyStudios: My point exactly! The developer should not be short changed by dramatically increasing Kiip's visibility. Instead, the percentage GameSalad gets should come out of Kiip's share of the profits.
- Alex
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Do you guys have some sort of inside info that says that's not the case? Cause I don't. They won't tell me any more than you guys. So how about we stop crucifying them for this wrong doing until they actually release the details and you find out the facts?
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
edited December 2011
@FallacyStudios , Nobody buys an iPhone for Angry Birds. If they are buying for angry birds they will go Android. Its free on Android. Angry birds is not losing any money. They are making a killing and more than happy to have the app Store apple provides.
My actual point with that was lots of people buy smartphones mainly for apps and app stores. ... Lets say there were no good games or apps in app stores. How many people do you think would actually waste money on smarthphones. How many people would have dished out that much money for an iphone if the app stores didn't exist??? The app store wouldn't really exist if it weren't for developers. That's my point.
And by the way I'm not saying they shouldn't get a slight cut from what apps make because it does cost money to have a market up, but 10% from millions of apps I would say is more than fair for apple google etc. I still think 30% is high, but it's not like developers can really do anything about that now can they.
In your own words, "Do you have some sort of inside info". I don't see why you even brought it up, but I'm sure Rovio/ClickGamer hate the fact that apple takes 30%, they're probably only okay with it because apple hows the most in mobile market share.
I suppose there's nothing to stop me putting up two versions of the same app, one regular paid style and one free but Kiip style? Just would need different names, right?
as an independent developer … AppStore's 30% …Saves me:
35¢ credit card transaction fee + 3% of the amount on each sale $$$ charged for exceeding my minuscule free bandwidth usage on my web site $$$ for monthly accounting fees … and, preparing statements that will be accepted by Tax department $$$ for marketing
also, my customers have ease of use and trust in the transaction process my apps have just as good a display in AppStore as the professional have … makes the playing field more level when my app is accepted, I am assured it will work on the devices
admob sounds better. angry bird is making tons of gold from it. kiip sounds like a hassle . we feel as if we are getting paid late enough by apple (a month later) with GS in the middle, it'll be even longer. why don't GS just stick to making great platform and charging people a heft for it? how about a 3 tier membership? free, $500 and $2000? seriously if it's good enough people will pay $2000 for it( ones that allows them to make it back in a month or two) but with ok platform, it doesn't matter how many thing you implement, there's no ground to support anything and if developer can't make good games, no amount of ad or system or anything will generate GS any money.. please take a look at the solid model that adobe is taking, microsoft is taking, apple is taking. they all focus on giving their user the best platform. and not trying to take a cut when there's nothing to cut from... just my 2 cent.
p.s. it's true that it doesn't matter how many percentage GS takes, as long as we make our fair share. but i don't think kiip looks like a good solution, it's just too many hassle and too many obstacles(unless the community as a whole has top quality game that people will stick with, which is not the case, most of us don't make games in the top 100, perhaps just a few but not enough that allows GS to make any real profit from this partnership). my predictions are it'll flop like iAd. i could be wrong, but i'm just saying...
i was excited at first, but now from the sounds of it... hum.. second thoughts.
@QuinnZoneStudios there needs to be some difference, i've had games rejected because it's essentially the same thing with ad. twice. and once an app is rejected,, it takes energies that can move mountains to get them approved.
full agree with ultima and what is with international support, outside us? it's like iAd, only advertisment in usa? Can't roll out my free version with iAd to europe and the rest of the world because there are no advertisment partners and the games run for free without any advertisement. Is this the same issue with Kiip? And how it works if a european player receive a coupon from a us based company? Send they the popcorn overseas?
Would be great if they ad admob later as a plugin. AdMob works great on IOS and Android, is easy to implement, etc. I'm really looking forward to the full announcement...
What you guys are agreeing to is basically selling your visitors for a 50 percent discount to kiip the same as running a groupon. There are many mobile ad networks recently with 80-90 percent revenue share to developer and they keep 10-20 percent. Keep in mind that kiip doesn't have high fill rates. A kiip impression per active user might only be 15-20 impressions a month or less than 1 a day. Thus comparing e cpm might be misleading as over 100 admob impressions may be served before a kiip impression.The 50 percent revenue split is because Brian wants to build a billion dollar ad network so very high profit margin is required to get high valuation or ipo. this makes me think it's much more profitable for some of you guys to get together and start a mobile ad network . one can make a profit even taking only 10 percent, Recently, most of the "rewards" are 50 percent off an item in a specific store or free picture frame with $50 purchase so engagement rate is down. It's more of a coupon network right now with a rare appearance of a gift card or free junk food. Part of the reason though for the 50/50 revenue split is that you are getting 50 percent revenue plus services as in kiip will help to promote your app perhaps through blog mentions, guiness world records book, Brian's Twitter, leaderboard contest,etc. I really don't see this happening on a large scale with the game salad deal.
@ozboybrian the standard industry rate is 30 percent to fund lots of employees, please investors, work in a lavish office. The 20 percent extra is basically a future promise that if you enable kiip then the swarm of kiip loyal members desiring free stuff will flock to your app. Just think of it as running a groupon with the hope that kiip loyal members will stay and not flock to the next kiip enabled game with better prizes. A lot of developers though were not happy with the 50 percent revenue share combined with low impressions and decreasing quality of stuff from free to basically coupons but like they say when buying a used car, lowball everyone and someone is bound to accept.
It's an entrepreneur article about Brian and mention of 50/50 revenue share and how he is able to convince popular games to accept it. psychologists have done tests in which 50/50 is the least someone will accept which they consider fair when splitting something. Why should Kiip pay you guys more if you will accept 50? Would you pay your employees more money if they are willing to work for less?
@Pjhcy Gonna have to disagree. You obviously have no idea about the statistics of kiip. 1st of all kiip is CPE not CPM, and admob impressions make a lot less than kiip engagements. Plus, admob conversion is usually 1-2%, with kiip they are average 10 -35%, which is outstanding.
@grip socks it's around 15-20 percent. Over 50 percent for quality stuff and single digits for not free stuff. Kiip is CPE and my figure is figure converted to CPM approx quoted. Kiip rewards will be skewed favoring some games while disfavoring others (I would assume advertiser do not want to be associated with violent games unless they were targeting younger males for example). Admob makes a lot less on a per ad shown basis but would probably make more on a total revenue basis due to volume of ads shown. For some people eg megajump, kiip works very well (world record book, decent free stuff and swarm contests which both monetize and retain users). It looks like a very close partnership. Brian is courting Zynga as well so if that deal goes through, then I suspect they would receive favorable treatment over both revenue share and good rewards over the typical developer. What I'm saying is that kiip is a option and with many mobile ad networks appearing, there are other options to consider as well especially if the kiip advertisers are not looking to advertise on games/apps in your genre (eg in game sponsored power ups,incentive downloads, each play requires virtual coins like an arcade, helping to build your game community by creating a social layer and monetize via in game purchases, and many others).
It seems that the details of Kiip are a bit unclear right now. Yet, I think two things are clear...
• GameSalad should not double-dip — $499 a year for software is not cheap. I don't think GameSalad should take a percentage from Kiip revenue... unless it comes out of Kiip's share. • GameSalad Developers should have a choice — Do you prefer Kiip over AdMob? That's cool. It's your game. But for developers that prefer the reverse, shouldn't they have that option? It's trivial to add AdMob support to an app, so I'm surprised that GameSalad doesn't have this feature already.
@Photics You're absolutey correct, there is now ay GS should take a dip of this $499 is very pricy and with a cheaper competitor (istencyl) on the dawn that could make gs lose some customers
My thing is this. Not all games are going to have achievement type rewards in their game. It works for some games and not for others. We honestly shouldn't have only Kiip. Like others have said they may favor some apps because they fit the profile for their ads in which case others are not making anything worth an income. Plus their ads are only shown at achievement point sections in which case you revenue is dependent on whether they get to that achievement point and if they even bother to fill out the info.
I think they should use another easy to add ad company. For example both Leadbolt and Mobclix are on both Android and iPhone and from my testing they pay well with good eCPM's. They just need to implement it once and we can use it on both devices and we aren't forced to use Kiip that we may not even get a good revenue from if your game doesn't match their ads.
Not to mention adding Leadbolts HTML ads into GS for example shouldn't take long at all. All that is needed to do this would be to make a new behavior that is a Webview. You would just place the HTML link in the behavior and they actor displays the webview aka the ad. That is not difficult to add and it opens up another advertising for both Android and iPhone to the pro users that don't want to use Kiip. Or possibly people want to use both Kiip (at achievement points) and regular banner ads.
Point is. We paid for it... don't monopolize the ad company we are forced to use and don't double dip on the ad money we make from it. You are getting your recurring $500.
Comments
and all I was saying earlier is why complain who takes what if at the end of the day my free game with way more downloads is putting more money in my pocket per download than if I were to offer it at $0.99? I personally would be thrilled.
- Alex
And by the way I'm not saying they shouldn't get a slight cut from what apps make because it does cost money to have a market up, but 10% from millions of apps I would say is more than fair for apple google etc. I still think 30% is high, but it's not like developers can really do anything about that now can they.
my apps have just as good a display in AppStore as the professional have … makes the playing field more level
when my app is accepted, I am assured it will work on the devices
MH
p.s. it's true that it doesn't matter how many percentage GS takes, as long as we make our fair share. but i don't think kiip looks like a good solution, it's just too many hassle and too many obstacles(unless the community as a whole has top quality game that people will stick with, which is not the case, most of us don't make games in the top 100, perhaps just a few but not enough that allows GS to make any real profit from this partnership). my predictions are it'll flop like iAd. i could be wrong, but i'm just saying...
i was excited at first, but now from the sounds of it... hum.. second thoughts.
it's like iAd, only advertisment in usa?
Can't roll out my free version with iAd to europe and the rest of the world because there are no advertisment partners and the games run for free without any advertisement. Is this the same issue with Kiip?
And how it works if a european player receive a coupon from a us based company? Send they the popcorn overseas?
Would be great if they ad admob later as a plugin. AdMob works great on IOS and Android, is easy to implement, etc.
I'm really looking forward to the full announcement...
30% tops!!
@ozboybrian the standard industry rate is 30 percent to fund lots of employees, please investors, work in a lavish office. The 20 percent extra is basically a future promise that if you enable kiip then the swarm of kiip loyal members desiring free stuff will flock to your app. Just think of it as running a groupon with the hope that kiip loyal members will stay and not flock to the next kiip enabled game with better prizes. A lot of developers though were not happy with the 50 percent revenue share combined with low impressions and decreasing quality of stuff from free to basically coupons but like they say when buying a used car, lowball everyone and someone is bound to accept.
It's an entrepreneur article about Brian and mention of 50/50 revenue share and how he is able to convince popular games to accept it. psychologists have done tests in which 50/50 is the least someone will accept which they consider fair when splitting something. Why should Kiip pay you guys more if you will accept 50? Would you pay your employees more money if they are willing to work for less?
• GameSalad should not double-dip — $499 a year for software is not cheap. I don't think GameSalad should take a percentage from Kiip revenue... unless it comes out of Kiip's share.
• GameSalad Developers should have a choice — Do you prefer Kiip over AdMob? That's cool. It's your game. But for developers that prefer the reverse, shouldn't they have that option? It's trivial to add AdMob support to an app, so I'm surprised that GameSalad doesn't have this feature already.
You're absolutey correct, there is now ay GS should take a dip of this $499 is very pricy and with a cheaper competitor (istencyl) on the dawn that could make gs lose some customers
I think they should use another easy to add ad company. For example both Leadbolt and Mobclix are on both Android and iPhone and from my testing they pay well with good eCPM's. They just need to implement it once and we can use it on both devices and we aren't forced to use Kiip that we may not even get a good revenue from if your game doesn't match their ads.
Not to mention adding Leadbolts HTML ads into GS for example shouldn't take long at all. All that is needed to do this would be to make a new behavior that is a Webview. You would just place the HTML link in the behavior and they actor displays the webview aka the ad. That is not difficult to add and it opens up another advertising for both Android and iPhone to the pro users that don't want to use Kiip. Or possibly people want to use both Kiip (at achievement points) and regular banner ads.
Point is. We paid for it... don't monopolize the ad company we are forced to use and don't double dip on the ad money we make from it. You are getting your recurring $500.
http://blog.kiip.me/post/14884251619/kiip-up-11
Ace
Thanks for sharing!
This is their Spotlight section, I guess a select few GS Kiip games will get featured on this page.
Ace