jnica23 said: So do I upgrade to 0.9.82 or wait? Currently I'm using 0.9.8 and it works okay, really havent noticed much improvement in load time, but I have noticed that during game play there is a little bit of gitter... still need to finish up some levels but I really don't want to download new version if its going to give me a headache and slow down my work schedule on the game. Is 0.9.82 worth downloading right now?
My opinion is yes. If you weren't already at .9.8 I would say no, but since you already are, .9.82 seems to be a big improvement.
Sparkyidr said: Getting similar "un-smoothness" on my 4-s
fps showing as 60-63..... but onscreen actually looks far more juddery than when testing on a gs.
Yep suffereing the judders & jitters too, it's not really a show stopper but noticeable performance difference between 0.9.8 & 0.9.82. I'm noticing the animation will jitter the first time on on playing through an animation cycle even though it's been cached and played through in the previous game?
Have seen slight improvement from version 0.9.8 to 0.982. Though frame rate has improved on my ipod touch 4 from 50fps to 55fps there is still a bad judder/jitter that has been introduced by the 0.9.8 update that was not present in version 0.9.7 where all was fine.
Noticed that the judder in my game was resolved after I checked the preload art on actors that had particles, interpolate in their behaviors. Had previously unchecked all preload art option wanting the load time to improve, that's when I started noticing the jittering. Decided to re-check the preload art option on the actors with animation and the like and noticed the issue resolved.
To the folks experiencing better performance on old devices:
We are investigating this issue. Thanks for letting us know!
SlickZeroHouston, TexasMember, Sous ChefPosts: 2,870
All of you that are experiencing stuttering…Do you have an actor constrained to your main actor that controls the camera? Or is it just stuttering no matter what?
I'm having this same issue, but when I take the camera control out of the constrained actor and put it in the main one, the playback is absolutely fine. I submitted my project to GameSalad, and they attributed it to my logic, because I was constraining an attribute to a scene. Even though they themselves changed the attribute from scene to game, and used better logic, they still got stuttering in my project. And they said it was more of a customer service issue that a report a bug issue.
I then changed all my logic, broke it down and got rid of unnecessary rules and behaviors, changed the scene attribute to a game attribute, and I still get the stuttering. But all I have to do is turn off camera control to the constrained actor, and turn on camera control in my main actor, and everything is absolutely fine. With the exception of my main actor being dead center of the screen, even though I need it to be on the left 1/3rd. This is happening on the computer, and on the iPhone when testing.
So I am convinced the stuttering comes from the constrained actor controlling the camera. Changing that, is the only thing that completely fixes my issue. It may be different for some of you, but that is the only solution that works for me at this time. And I'm wondering if the rest of you are using camera control on a constrained actor.
SlickZero said: All of you that are experiencing stuttering…Do you have an actor constrained to your main actor that controls the camera? Or is it just stuttering no matter what?
So I am convinced the stuttering comes from the constrained actor controlling the camera. Changing that, is the only thing that completely fixes my issue. It may be different for some of you, but that is the only solution that works for me at this time. And I'm wondering if the rest of you are using camera control on a constrained actor.
Yeah, not me. stuttering no matter what, the only constrain camera i have is in my level selection scene (and that is working fine) the main thing that is stuttering for me is the ball. the only scene attribute i have in the enitire game is the amount of enemies in the scene for each scene. Don't know what to do now, wait till the next update and pray it fixes my issues. been putting in about 12 hrs a day all week trying to fix it, no luck so far. Taking the weekend off so I don't smash my computer. really missing 0.9.7
Yeah, I have stuttering on my 4s when just controlling the camera with a single actor
I am however using the camera to control the parallax scrolling ingame. So it could well be related to that. Seems like it's deffo related to camera stuff from what everyone is experiencing. ?
On jutter. I have found that the issue is almost always user error (the update just now makes the faulty logic now show up, when it did not before. You have to remember how GS order of processing goes. It starts with the bottom layer bottom most actor, executes it's rules in the order they are placed in the actor, then it moves onto the next actor up and so on. There is no such thing as simulataneous execution of rules in different actors. It may only be mater of milisconds between each actors execution of rules but it is a delay nonetheless. Thus when one actor relies upon another actor for it's movement ( e.g. Constrain to other actor) if you don't have the actors placed in the proper order to each other you will get jutter. It is even worse when one of the actors happens to be controlling the camera.
Ultimately, that is where I have found most jutter issue to arise when the fps and ram are good. Now if your fps or ram is bad then that is probably the problem. Either way, it's probably not a bug but just something that changed in the engine with the new update that happens to bring out the faulty logic.
or it could be a bug. no update should reduce the performance of a project, are you nuts? with your faulty logic you could make black white and the earth flat.
To be fair it could be that the new 'pre-load image' button needs to be selected on particles as one user has stated to get rid of the jitter.
dotsonj23 said: On jutter. I have found that the issue is almost always user error (the update just now makes the faulty logic now show up, when it did not before. You have to remember how GS order of processing goes. It starts with the bottom layer bottom most actor, executes it's rules in the order they are placed in the actor, then it moves onto the next actor up and so on. There is no such thing as simulataneous execution of rules in different actors. It may only be mater of milisconds between each actors execution of rules but it is a delay nonetheless. Thus when one actor relies upon another actor for it's movement ( e.g. Constrain to other actor) if you don't have the actors placed in the proper order to each other you will get jutter. It is even worse when one of the actors happens to be controlling the camera.
Ultimately, that is where I have found most jutter issue to arise when the fps and ram are good. Now if your fps or ram is bad then that is probably the problem. Either way, it's probably not a bug but just something that changed in the engine with the new update that happens to bring out the faulty logic.
No faulty logic here... an actor with a single animation sequence of 15 frames set to loop.
Stutter on iPad 1 when if first starts to play, after it has stuttered through the first 15 frames and loops back performance is fine. Just that initial load - and yes preload IS ON!
@dotsonj23 Thanks for the tip, I figured that since the behaviors fire from top to bottom, the actors in the layer would do the same. My ball is on the very top in every scene. Gonna have to try to move it down. Thanks
I just updated to .82 so far everything is working the way it should, skipped .80
I did notice a few things though. Overall my total Ram has increased by about 2.5 MB or so where i was under 40 mb total ram all previous versions i now have levels at 41.5 mb.
I decided to NOT pre-load animations and such which gives me a good result.
my levels now start at about 29mb-33.4mb region with images at 3.7mb which is great
As animations get loaded in i can see the image memory get bigger.. makes sense just fine, this also bumps up total ram with mostly below 40mb results, however on some levels it will still peak at 41mb or so total
advantage is when scene is reset it goes way back down to 33 area again.
i cant remember exactly but i believe staying under 45 mb is critical for 3gs?
I hear what you are saying, and I'm not naive enough to believe that I'm doing everything perfectly right. Though the only constraining I have going on in my scene is my main characters collision to his visual. I have no camera constraint, and my sliding/tiling background images are stuttering like crazy on the iPhone4, but running just fine on my iTouch 3G. They are at the very bottom of the layer (since they are the background images) and they aren't relying on any other layers for their actions. Do you have any other suggestions?
The real head scratcher for me is the fact that the game performs much better on an older device. Even though the game runs fine on my 3G, I'm still willing to make changes if someone can give me an idea of what might be wrong, or if Gamesalad (who has been looking at my project) comes up with something.
Preload art is the reason for the stutter, at least in my case. I've been playing around with the option all day and noticed that if I check preload art on actors that have any type of movement, interpolate, particles the stuttering is resolved. Not sure about older devices, I'm using an iPhone4.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
jnica23 said: Preload art is the reason for the stutter, at least in my case. I've been playing around with the option all day and noticed that if I check preload art on actors that have any type of movement, interpolate, particles the stuttering is resolved. Not sure about older devices, I'm using an iPhone4.
I would think this is most peoples problems. Unchecking Pre-Load on every single thing is not always a good thing and as mentioned by GameSalad may cause a stutter when it needs to load something right when you are playing it.
tenrdrmer said: I would think this is most peoples problems. Unchecking Pre-Load on every single thing is not always a good thing and as mentioned by GameSalad may cause a stutter when it needs to load something right when you are playing it.
Definitely not mine. I understand its benefits, and I only use it in one specific spot in my game (my character select screen, it doesn't load characters that haven't yet been unlocked). I didn't touch that feature for any of the gameplay sections. The last thing I need is more of a hit to the framerate.
Its also worth mentioning, that in my case, the stutter is very consistent. Preloading is something that should give an initial hit to the frame rate as all of the assets are loaded, but then go away once that's completed (assuming you aren't constantly loading new things throughout). My stutter is a consistent issue that never gets worse, or goes away.
iKandyImagineer of Crazy ShitNew York CityMemberPosts: 310
My stuttering issue seems to be consistent regardless of checking/unchecking preloads.
And I agree with MTINGL ("no update should reduce the performance of a project...")
The stuttering was NON-EXISTENT in 9.7.
Hopefully, 9.83 (?) will address the stuttering since a lot of users seem to have this problem.
SlickZeroHouston, TexasMember, Sous ChefPosts: 2,870
No, an update should not reduce the performance of a project. But it makes sense that a newer engine would expose bad logic in a new light. And I wouldn't call it "bad logic" either, it's more of a "roundabout way of doing something unnecessary". There's my political correctness for the day.
I have tweaked and changed, and re-ordered, done away with, added, tried something new, and I still get the stuttering. I put my project on hold all weekend to work on this one issue. I put a good 18 hours into it. Although, in its current state, I get the stuttering in one area of my game, but when testing on the 3GS device, it doesn't do it on there anymore like it was doing, it does it a very little bit, but mainly just on the computer now, and in one certain spot. But I cannot get rid of it to save my life. I've even deleted every actor, and every piece of script that doesn't involve the character and the camera. Still, can't get rid of the stutter. And a real quick fix for me is to just take the camera out of the constrained actor, and put it into the main actor…Problem completely solved on computer and on device...But I need the main actor on the left 1/3 of the screen, so that's not really an option that I want to settle with.
So I actually believe it's a combination of both. A "roundabout way of doing something unnecessary" will be exposed more within the new performance. But I believe there is still an issue with constrained actors controlling the camera. They are making improvements to the engine for better loading and whatnot, so I believe that means its going to run through your logic differently. The real test will come with an Ad Hoc build, which I haven't done yet.
Just my opinion so far. I'm not a engine developer, I just pretend to play one on the internet.
Right now I'm kind of mad. First, gamesalad isn't playing oogs on my laptop. Now whenever I have sound effects in my game, it crashes whenever I preview it. I've tried replacing and deleting! ARGH. The whole reason I bought a mac laptop was to use gamesalad. Now its not previewing at all! Please, fix this bug! The ogg file not playing bug has been around forever, but 0.9.2 and 0.9.0 have made it even worse!
hey fellas any news as to ETA of the new version with fixed external link function? been waiting to publish my stuff but can't because email function, rating, link are all non functional.
I too would also like to know when we can expect another patch to fix the remaining bugs in 0.9.82? I'm not looking for a particular date, just an idea if it will be here by the end of October or early November or what. Right now, the bugs I mentioned above (the save/load problem and the Game Center problem) are the only two things keeping me from submitting my game to Apple. I am sure their are others in the same boat as me, so some general info on how the next patch is coming along would be much appreciated! Thank you.
Weird one with the stuttering animations in GameSalad 0.9.82. It would appear the accelerometer when calculating device angle contributes to the frame stuttering.
Just doing a few experiments and leaving the iPad 1 on the desk while testing runs pretty well with a slight stutter at the start.
Pickup the device and tilt around and the stuttering is suddenly much more pronounced on the animation - put the ipad back down on the desk and the stuttering almost stops after a second or two.
SlickZeroHouston, TexasMember, Sous ChefPosts: 2,870
Just curious if anybody has had any luck getting rid of the stutter. I only experience it when a constrained actor controls the camera, but I notice some of you are having the issue regardless of constraints.
The only solution that I have found to my issue is to not use a constrained actor to control the camera. It doesn't matter if preload art is checked or not in my situation, it does it on the computer as well as the device. Constrain the actor with camera control, and it stutters, don't constrain the actor and put the camera in the main actor, and it runs fine. I had it to a point that it barely stuttered on the device, just on the computer, but now it's back with a vengeance, and I didn't change anything.
Even when I put the camera control into the main actor and leave the constrained actor attached to the main actor, I can see the constrained actor jittering around, but has no effect on the main actor. I put the camera back into the constrained actor, and then the main actor jumps around, while the constrained one has no effects of stuttering. It's like whatever actor controls the camera, the other actor has the stuttering, if they are being constrained to one another.
Comments
If so, I'm wondering if it's an issue with how it's doing it.
As I reported, my fps on the couple of games I have been testing it on, go above 60 slightly, but still get the judders.
just a thought.
We are investigating this issue. Thanks for letting us know!
I'm having this same issue, but when I take the camera control out of the constrained actor and put it in the main one, the playback is absolutely fine. I submitted my project to GameSalad, and they attributed it to my logic, because I was constraining an attribute to a scene. Even though they themselves changed the attribute from scene to game, and used better logic, they still got stuttering in my project. And they said it was more of a customer service issue that a report a bug issue.
I then changed all my logic, broke it down and got rid of unnecessary rules and behaviors, changed the scene attribute to a game attribute, and I still get the stuttering. But all I have to do is turn off camera control to the constrained actor, and turn on camera control in my main actor, and everything is absolutely fine. With the exception of my main actor being dead center of the screen, even though I need it to be on the left 1/3rd. This is happening on the computer, and on the iPhone when testing.
So I am convinced the stuttering comes from the constrained actor controlling the camera. Changing that, is the only thing that completely fixes my issue. It may be different for some of you, but that is the only solution that works for me at this time. And I'm wondering if the rest of you are using camera control on a constrained actor.
I am however using the camera to control the parallax scrolling ingame. So it could well be related to that.
Seems like it's deffo related to camera stuff from what everyone is experiencing.
?
Ultimately, that is where I have found most jutter issue to arise when the fps and ram are good. Now if your fps or ram is bad then that is probably the problem. Either way, it's probably not a bug but just something that changed in the engine with the new update that happens to bring out the faulty logic.
To be fair it could be that the new 'pre-load image' button needs to be selected on particles as one user has stated to get rid of the jitter.
Stutter on iPad 1 when if first starts to play, after it has stuttered through the first 15 frames and loops back performance is fine. Just that initial load - and yes preload IS ON!
On 0.9.8 my GS crashed (only once)
But it has not on 0.9.82!
Its a big improvement, anyone who is thinking about staying at 0.9.8 until there is a stable version, update to 0.9.82.
Thanks for the tip, I figured that since the behaviors fire from top to bottom, the actors in the layer would do the same. My ball is on the very top in every scene. Gonna have to try to move it down. Thanks
I did notice a few things though. Overall my total Ram has increased by about 2.5 MB or so where i was under 40 mb total ram all previous versions i now have levels at 41.5 mb.
I decided to NOT pre-load animations and such which gives me a good result.
my levels now start at about 29mb-33.4mb region with images at 3.7mb which is great
As animations get loaded in i can see the image memory get bigger.. makes sense just fine, this also bumps up total ram with mostly below 40mb results, however on some levels it will still peak at 41mb or so total
advantage is when scene is reset it goes way back down to 33 area again.
i cant remember exactly but i believe staying under 45 mb is critical for 3gs?
I hear what you are saying, and I'm not naive enough to believe that I'm doing everything perfectly right. Though the only constraining I have going on in my scene is my main characters collision to his visual. I have no camera constraint, and my sliding/tiling background images are stuttering like crazy on the iPhone4, but running just fine on my iTouch 3G. They are at the very bottom of the layer (since they are the background images) and they aren't relying on any other layers for their actions. Do you have any other suggestions?
The real head scratcher for me is the fact that the game performs much better on an older device. Even though the game runs fine on my 3G, I'm still willing to make changes if someone can give me an idea of what might be wrong, or if Gamesalad (who has been looking at my project) comes up with something.
Thanks for your help!
Its also worth mentioning, that in my case, the stutter is very consistent. Preloading is something that should give an initial hit to the frame rate as all of the assets are loaded, but then go away once that's completed (assuming you aren't constantly loading new things throughout). My stutter is a consistent issue that never gets worse, or goes away.
And I agree with MTINGL ("no update should reduce the performance of a project...")
The stuttering was NON-EXISTENT in 9.7.
Hopefully, 9.83 (?) will address the stuttering since a lot of users seem to have this problem.
I have tweaked and changed, and re-ordered, done away with, added, tried something new, and I still get the stuttering. I put my project on hold all weekend to work on this one issue. I put a good 18 hours into it. Although, in its current state, I get the stuttering in one area of my game, but when testing on the 3GS device, it doesn't do it on there anymore like it was doing, it does it a very little bit, but mainly just on the computer now, and in one certain spot. But I cannot get rid of it to save my life. I've even deleted every actor, and every piece of script that doesn't involve the character and the camera. Still, can't get rid of the stutter. And a real quick fix for me is to just take the camera out of the constrained actor, and put it into the main actor…Problem completely solved on computer and on device...But I need the main actor on the left 1/3 of the screen, so that's not really an option that I want to settle with.
So I actually believe it's a combination of both. A "roundabout way of doing something unnecessary" will be exposed more within the new performance. But I believe there is still an issue with constrained actors controlling the camera. They are making improvements to the engine for better loading and whatnot, so I believe that means its going to run through your logic differently. The real test will come with an Ad Hoc build, which I haven't done yet.
Just my opinion so far. I'm not a engine developer, I just pretend to play one on the internet.
- Alex
Just doing a few experiments and leaving the iPad 1 on the desk while testing runs pretty well with a slight stutter at the start.
Pickup the device and tilt around and the stuttering is suddenly much more pronounced on the animation - put the ipad back down on the desk and the stuttering almost stops after a second or two.
The only solution that I have found to my issue is to not use a constrained actor to control the camera. It doesn't matter if preload art is checked or not in my situation, it does it on the computer as well as the device. Constrain the actor with camera control, and it stutters, don't constrain the actor and put the camera in the main actor, and it runs fine. I had it to a point that it barely stuttered on the device, just on the computer, but now it's back with a vengeance, and I didn't change anything.
Even when I put the camera control into the main actor and leave the constrained actor attached to the main actor, I can see the constrained actor jittering around, but has no effect on the main actor. I put the camera back into the constrained actor, and then the main actor jumps around, while the constrained one has no effects of stuttering. It's like whatever actor controls the camera, the other actor has the stuttering, if they are being constrained to one another.