ID could turn round and tell us one little detail, and there'd be a collective 'OH! *now* I get it!' from all of us
I think Apple *did* tell him. And I'm sure they meant it. It just was someone not very high up who misinterpreted the situation at the time, or just wasn't sure and 'played it safe'.
QS is right. Apple DID tell me that. As a matter of fact the conversation was with the Head of Apple's App Review Section. (So in fact, he is rather "high up" in the Apple hierarchy, QS...)
I am not saying they'll tell *you* that, but since I have a problem using a tool that is limited to not providing features I need for my apps, that is what I am talking about. If any of you needed a feature that you could not program in GS, you'd all likely have the same mindset. I just cannot use GameSalad to make anything I wanted to, so it's quite frustrating. Perhaps GameSalad does everything you need it to, hurrah for you!
Scitunes suggested that Apple was lying to me, but I think Apple was seriously pointing out an intrinsic inability for GameSalad to make what I needed to make, and Apple was truthfully telling me to not use it. Why on earth would Apple lie?
As to FMG pointing out what I had said would be interesting for a GS book - I stand by those remarks! If there were some more basic templates *TO LEARN FROM* maybe the lowest common denominator of 1,000 GS apps would not be "the block knock game", "the platform game" and "the scrolling space shooter". A very high percentage of what I see from GS is derived from those three, and I was just hoping for more examples to take things in a different direction. For an example, I really like what I have seen of "Grisly Manor" because there are not a lot of those yet. I have many apps planned in that genre, but will not be using GameSalad to develop them, since at least with my concepts there is nothing that GameSalad can specifically provide to make that type of programming easier, and still provide the features I would want to have them contain.
I think that we'd all be better off if there were more different types of games and apps that were more unique from each other, otherwise there's just too much "Lost Ark" stuff in the warehouse. Also, if different genres were available as starting points, perhaps they would inspire others to think outside the box. But when all the examples are related to the same basic three applets, well then that's why you get so little variation.
Maybe if there were some better examples of more things, and some documentation, then more ground would get broken. I am constantly frustrated by the almost total lack of documentation for this tool. Sure there are some good answers sprinkled in the forums, and people are helpful where they can be (I try to be also...) but having no documentation is a real show stopper, in addition to a huge time waster. Again this makes for frustration and lack of progress and a general feeling of wasted time. If this comes through in some posts, well, it's because it is true.
I am not at all sure what mulcahy is talking about, ebooks and someone else not having social networking... I've seen lots of apps that have social networking built in, and I am not making ebooks...
IntelligentDesigner said: If there were some more basic templates *TO LEARN FROM* maybe the lowest common denominator of 1,000 GS apps would not be "the block knock game", "the platform game" and "the scrolling space shooter".
Oi! There's nowt wrong with 'the scrolling space shooter'!
I mean conventional documentation, not videos, forums, blogs and wikis and other things that are difficult to use. Something like the book "Photics" is writing will be a blessing.
I do not consider a hodge podge of unindexed pointers sufficient. I do understand that some others might, but it is not useful for me.
Getting answers by other members is fine, but not too efficient compared to a book. Maybe I am old fashioned, but it is a very inefficient way of gaining knowledge. Give me a book with an index any day, and I will be happy!
I haven't read every post in this thread...but I've read some of it so I apologize if I mis-interpret some of it.
However...I thought I would chime in here and offer some of my thoughts.
I can appreciate the frustration sometimes with GS. I too have been stuck at times. I have spent hours trying to get something to work the way I want it to and after 2 or 3 rebuild and with a change of approach each time...I have so far worked out a solution and got what I wanted...and most of the time...the final solution is much better and more efficient.
GS isn't the "best" software on the market...but I must support GS in the fact that is does well what it claims to do...and that is allow devs to quickly build a game for the iPhone without writing code.
I respect the fact that it is still in beta. I wish it were developing quicker and that it didn't have some of the problems it has...but so far its a good platform to building quick and simple games.
Our team uses all of the tools available. We are writing apps from scratch with native XCode. We are writing apps with GS. We are currently looking at Corona and Unity and several other platforms.
IMO, GS is one tool of the trade. For web dev and 3D modeling...I use several pieces of software or tools to get the job done. I have yet to find a software that does everything perfectly.
When I used to be an architect (for 15 years prior to the recession), I became very used to and comfortable with design and creating within limitations. Things like budgets, schedules, client demands, building specs, building codes, city jurisdictions...the list goes on and on.
What I learned is to work within the box and think outside of it. Art is that way. Your tools are paint and canvas but your creation is original. Its as good as your imagination and your own personal creative ingenuity.
I think many people on here think first as an engineer and second (or even last) as a designer or a creator. Game development is a CREATIVE process and one that requires technical ingenuity to achieve a result.
The tools are out there. GS, Corona, XCode, Unity...whatever. Don't use a fork when you need a spoon. And don't try to cut granite with a butter knife. GS is a kitchen knife. What you have to do is make the best and most wonderful salad you can imagine with that knife and not try to do anything more. You have to build to the tool and allow your imagination to run free and expand on what is possible.
The game I am working on right now is coming together well. I am hoping it is a success. Only time will tell. But after working with GS for about 6 months now...I feel VERY comfortable with its structure and I believe I know what it can do technically. Now that I know that...I am my box defined.
Once the "technical" box is defined...its at that point that you must expand your imagination thing of ways to take that tool and technology and do something unique with it.
My recommendation is to stop trying to start with a technical solution and start developing creative solutions. Its not about trying to make GS build a better version of PacMan or Galaga, or Mario Bros. Its about trying to UNDERSTAND GameSalad's capabilities and then making YOUR game fit within that technical definition and thus creatively develop a new and fresh concept that fits that technical spec and thus creates a fresh and amazing experience for the player.
This is true - no matter what tool in your tool box you are using.
If you can do that...Then you are 90% of the way to success. The remaining 10% is simply executing the plan. If you did it right...the rewards will come to you and the tools you used to climb the mountain really don't matter that much.
So that's all I have now...Back to GS game development for me.
my concern with all of this is the fall of a lot of 2nd party development tools, like revMobile, because of the TOS stuff. while some that have been killed didn't use obj-c/lua/etc., and others did, it is confusing. I wish the GS folks would request approval from apple and find out for certain. I need the pro version, but before i shell out $2K per year I need a bit more reassurance. However, for what it does I think GS is offering a lot of people the chance of developing that may not have existed. I can program with obj-c, my downfall is animation/graphics. xcode, obj-c, the IB, etc. take some study, and are tedious at best, but seem to be a necessary evil for apps.
This is true - no matter what tool in your tool box you are using.
If you can do that...Then you are 90% of the way to success. The remaining 10% is simply executing the plan. If you did it right...the rewards will come to you and the tools you used to climb the mountain really don't matter that much.
So that's all I have now...Back to GS game development for me.
@GameDev, I think that exporting to Xcode is what Gendai is doing - it'd have to be to comply with the rules...
I bet the XML is parsed and matched with their engine and makes spaghetti code, which is compilable by XCode. That's why I have been hoping they'd give us access so we could add other missing features...
It's our code and our application whether in source or object...
@Rob2, That means it specifically does not meet the criteria in Apple's Developer contract (3.3.1)
3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs. Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).
This is pretty clear, I think. I thought Gendai remained compliant by translating our XML into Objective-C source Code and then compiling it as required by 3.3.1. How does doing anything else remain compliant with the terms and conditions cited above?
What now?
On the other hand, if you are correct "interpreted at run-time" explains all you need to know about the sluggish performance inherent in GameSalad distributed apps...
"My recommendation is to stop trying to start with a technical solution and start developing creative solutions. Its not about trying to make GS build a better version of PacMan or Galaga, or Mario Bros. Its about trying to UNDERSTAND GameSalad's capabilities and then making YOUR game fit within that technical definition and thus creatively develop a new and fresh concept that fits that technical spec and thus creates a fresh and amazing experience for the player."
Very well put Synthesis!
I think from that point of view, it's easier for the layperson and not a programmer to come in and use Gamesalad. I know from my own experience, this is the only program I use, so as scary as it is to rely on one piece of software who's future is uncertain, I still think it's capabilities are pretty amazing considering how user friendly it is.
Technically not a single app in the App Store complies. Most of them are written originally in English. Unless, of course you get straight into coding without ever writing anything down about your app/game idea. Really depends how literally you want to take the clause!
Comments
ID could turn round and tell us one little detail, and there'd be a collective 'OH! *now* I get it!' from all of us
I think Apple *did* tell him. And I'm sure they meant it. It just was someone not very high up who misinterpreted the situation at the time, or just wasn't sure and 'played it safe'.
Who knows, eh?
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
I am not saying they'll tell *you* that, but since I have a problem using a tool that is limited to not providing features I need for my apps, that is what I am talking about. If any of you needed a feature that you could not program in GS, you'd all likely have the same mindset. I just cannot use GameSalad to make anything I wanted to, so it's quite frustrating. Perhaps GameSalad does everything you need it to, hurrah for you!
Scitunes suggested that Apple was lying to me, but I think Apple was seriously pointing out an intrinsic inability for GameSalad to make what I needed to make, and Apple was truthfully telling me to not use it. Why on earth would Apple lie?
As to FMG pointing out what I had said would be interesting for a GS book - I stand by those remarks! If there were some more basic templates *TO LEARN FROM* maybe the lowest common denominator of 1,000 GS apps would not be "the block knock game", "the platform game" and "the scrolling space shooter". A very high percentage of what I see from GS is derived from those three, and I was just hoping for more examples to take things in a different direction. For an example, I really like what I have seen of "Grisly Manor" because there are not a lot of those yet. I have many apps planned in that genre, but will not be using GameSalad to develop them, since at least with my concepts there is nothing that GameSalad can specifically provide to make that type of programming easier, and still provide the features I would want to have them contain.
I think that we'd all be better off if there were more different types of games and apps that were more unique from each other, otherwise there's just too much "Lost Ark" stuff in the warehouse. Also, if different genres were available as starting points, perhaps they would inspire others to think outside the box. But when all the examples are related to the same basic three applets, well then that's why you get so little variation.
Maybe if there were some better examples of more things, and some documentation, then more ground would get broken. I am constantly frustrated by the almost total lack of documentation for this tool. Sure there are some good answers sprinkled in the forums, and people are helpful where they can be (I try to be also...) but having no documentation is a real show stopper, in addition to a huge time waster. Again this makes for frustration and lack of progress and a general feeling of wasted time. If this comes through in some posts, well, it's because it is true.
I am not at all sure what mulcahy is talking about, ebooks and someone else not having social networking... I've seen lots of apps that have social networking built in, and I am not making ebooks...
If done right
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Unique is good!
I do not consider a hodge podge of unindexed pointers sufficient. I do understand that some others might, but it is not useful for me.
Getting answers by other members is fine, but not too efficient compared to a book. Maybe I am old fashioned, but it is a very inefficient way of gaining knowledge. Give me a book with an index any day, and I will be happy!
I haven't read every post in this thread...but I've read some of it so I apologize if I mis-interpret some of it.
However...I thought I would chime in here and offer some of my thoughts.
I can appreciate the frustration sometimes with GS. I too have been stuck at times. I have spent hours trying to get something to work the way I want it to and after 2 or 3 rebuild and with a change of approach each time...I have so far worked out a solution and got what I wanted...and most of the time...the final solution is much better and more efficient.
GS isn't the "best" software on the market...but I must support GS in the fact that is does well what it claims to do...and that is allow devs to quickly build a game for the iPhone without writing code.
I respect the fact that it is still in beta. I wish it were developing quicker and that it didn't have some of the problems it has...but so far its a good platform to building quick and simple games.
Our team uses all of the tools available. We are writing apps from scratch with native XCode. We are writing apps with GS. We are currently looking at Corona and Unity and several other platforms.
IMO, GS is one tool of the trade. For web dev and 3D modeling...I use several pieces of software or tools to get the job done. I have yet to find a software that does everything perfectly.
When I used to be an architect (for 15 years prior to the recession), I became very used to and comfortable with design and creating within limitations. Things like budgets, schedules, client demands, building specs, building codes, city jurisdictions...the list goes on and on.
What I learned is to work within the box and think outside of it. Art is that way. Your tools are paint and canvas but your creation is original. Its as good as your imagination and your own personal creative ingenuity.
I think many people on here think first as an engineer and second (or even last) as a designer or a creator. Game development is a CREATIVE process and one that requires technical ingenuity to achieve a result.
The tools are out there. GS, Corona, XCode, Unity...whatever. Don't use a fork when you need a spoon. And don't try to cut granite with a butter knife. GS is a kitchen knife. What you have to do is make the best and most wonderful salad you can imagine with that knife and not try to do anything more. You have to build to the tool and allow your imagination to run free and expand on what is possible.
The game I am working on right now is coming together well. I am hoping it is a success. Only time will tell. But after working with GS for about 6 months now...I feel VERY comfortable with its structure and I believe I know what it can do technically. Now that I know that...I am my box defined.
Once the "technical" box is defined...its at that point that you must expand your imagination thing of ways to take that tool and technology and do something unique with it.
My recommendation is to stop trying to start with a technical solution and start developing creative solutions. Its not about trying to make GS build a better version of PacMan or Galaga, or Mario Bros. Its about trying to UNDERSTAND GameSalad's capabilities and then making YOUR game fit within that technical definition and thus creatively develop a new and fresh concept that fits that technical spec and thus creates a fresh and amazing experience for the player.
This is true - no matter what tool in your tool box you are using.
If you can do that...Then you are 90% of the way to success. The remaining 10% is simply executing the plan. If you did it right...the rewards will come to you and the tools you used to climb the mountain really don't matter that much.
So that's all I have now...Back to GS game development for me.
-Syn
I bet the XML is parsed and matched with their engine and makes spaghetti code, which is compilable by XCode. That's why I have been hoping they'd give us access so we could add other missing features...
It's our code and our application whether in source or object...
It sure would make things simpler.
What now?
On the other hand, if you are correct "interpreted at run-time" explains all you need to know about the sluggish performance inherent in GameSalad distributed apps...
Very well put Synthesis!
I think from that point of view, it's easier for the layperson and not a programmer to come in and use Gamesalad. I know from my own experience, this is the only program I use, so as scary as it is to rely on one piece of software who's future is uncertain, I still think it's capabilities are pretty amazing considering how user friendly it is.
I think it makes sense to consider the meaning of the clause, don't you?