Isn't Apple going to reject created games?

rodrigofms

The iPhone SDK license agreement says that "Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs".

So... Isn't Apple going to block games created with GameSalad?

design219

No. GameSalad is clear. This has been discussed over and over and over and over.

jonmulcahy

and over and over and over and over and over and over...

scorelessmusic

And possibly over a million bucks too.

IntelligentDesigner

It's not really that clear at all.

It has been expressed over and over (and over and over and over) by the management that "...they believe there is no issue...". Sort of like "...until we hear differently, there is nothing to worry about..." Hardly something to rely upon.

The fact is unless Apple says so (and they have not yet) it could become a show-stopper, just like it was for Flash.

ADC 3.3.1 is crystal clear, though if you read it. I'd bank on that because it is unequivocally true.

This might not be as touchy an issue for 'pro", as the features Apple wants included in apps are apparently being planned for "pro". It's not so much that you have to use all the features in any given app, but a tool that precludes you giving something to your customers might not end up being "Apple-blessed". I have already been told by Apple to not use GameSalad, since it does not support some of the things I want to include in apps.

IntelligentDesigner

Is there any news about a guaranteed continued relationship, then? Anyone know?

AfterBurnett

I spoke to Steve Jobs last night. He said you're all screwed but he'll let my games through.

quantumsheep

POLYGAMe said:
I spoke to Steve Jobs last night. He said you're all screwed but he'll let my games through.

Psssst. Put in a good word for me, eh, and I'll slip you a koala

IntelligentDesigner said:
Is there any news about a guaranteed continued relationship, then? Anyone know?

I think that the continued appearance on the App store of GS created games says a lot

QS

IntelligentDesigner

@QS

I agree for the short term, but I am concerned about a lasting ability to use GS. There seems to be no guarantee. In fact it may turn out that with important features relegated to "pro" only "pro" will be allowed.

AfterBurnett

Then they'd have to drop the price... people ain't gonna cough up 2 g's. Not many people, anyway.

IntelligentDesigner

I think we can all agree with that. Even if GS can't make apps to be distributed in the app store anymore, it still is a good prototyping tool. Maybe if it comes to that Gendai can give us our XCode Source? That would make it worthwhile, and still useful for making app store apps.

Rob2

@ID when did Apple tell you not to use GS? How and what did they say?

IntelligentDesigner

When I was having some apps in review, they did not want to approve them because they needed to have social networking activated, and in-app purchasing. Since GS can't do that they said do not use GS. They said that third party app generators were all on thin ice anyway, and it would be far better to directly program in XCode since there is no problem adding features required by app store customers. They said that Third party app generators were bering cracked down on for minimal user functionality. I interpreted their position as advice that going forward, apps needed to comply with 3.3.1

Rob2

Thanks....what date was this?

Rob2

So you are saying apple considered your app needed social netwkg?

IntelligentDesigner

A month or two ago, and yes. They need social networking and in app purchasing.

quantumsheep

Thanks for those posts, ID - very interesting.

I'd love to see social networking and in-app purchasing in GS (the former more than the latter - not a fan of iap).

But this 'need to have' stuff confuses me.

Now, if you're making a game for Nintendo, or Microsoft, or Sony for their consoles, there are certain procedures you have to follow and comply with.

For example, Microsoft my say that you need achievements, totalling 1000 game points, in every game, otherwise it'll fail their certification process and your game won't get published.

There are no such limits on iPhone devices. Not official ones, anyway.

And what if I, as a developer, don't want to put certain features in.

In-App purchases, for example. I've never liked them. Sure, I may use them at some point, but right now, they're not important to my game. Having them in or not does not make my game any 'better'.

So I may get rejected because Apple says, informally I might add, that your app needs in-App purchases??

I just don't get it!

QS

Rob2

Kind of what I was wondering..."your app needs social networking".said apple
....eh? And sorry not trying to be rude..but one month or two?

BarkBarkCo

There is that *mystery* twitter behavior floating around in the GS package contents... ;-)

JessieTea

IntelligentDesigner said:
A month or two ago, and yes. They need social networking and in app purchasing.

They as in Apple, or they as in the apps you made? I don't think Apple would just go out and tell you that your app needs social networking so I'm thinking the latter...

JamesZeppelin

I know it's been discussed to death but those teems changed in April.
Game salad isn't recently in the clear but they have been in the clear for a good three months. An eternity in apple time.

rodrigofms

IntelligentDesigner, eh, I don't think that Apple was just going to say "Your app is rejected because we want social networking on it".
Well, I'll try to find some way to contact Apple about this (about GameSalad, not about your app, lol).

IntelligentDesigner

What is hard to understand about the apps I made need to have social networking activated? And Apple said that they do not think that so many apps as I am planning to create will be hosted on the app store, rather they needed to be in app purchases.

@Rob2, call it 1.63 months ago, because I don't really remember, and it was two separate incidents. One app needed social networking and the others needed in App purchasing. I have not bothered to work with GS since then, other than for prototyping proof of concepts, because without these capabilities it is a waste of my time. Unless I am willing to change my stable of apps to what everyone else is building, and I am not.

@QS, it was NOT Apple saying it *informally*, it was during discussions arising from refusal to approve, stemming from what Apple felt was "inadequate user functionality". Maybe if you make a game that is obvious how it works, it's easier to get approved, I 'm not sure. But my controls for my apps are hidden by necessity.

@rodrigo, that's *exactly* what Apple DID say.

No one is saying that either makes a game "better". But both are needed at times to make your apps approvable, and more marketable.

quantumsheep

Ok, so from what you're saying I'm understanding that you have lots of apps that are very similar, and would benefit from all being under one 'umbrella' app with in-app purchases.

That bit I can understand. Or am I wrong?

But without knowing what your apps do, it's difficult for us to understand why they *need* to have social networking as a necessity to make them approvable or marketable.

I don't foresee my games needing in-app purchases or social networking for now. So I don't foresee any problems.

I think people are getting worried by your posts. Just because Apple told you, informally or not, that your particular apps needed to do certain things, it doesn't mean that others do.

As I said, I haven't heard of anyone else having problems getting approved.

On the plus side, your apps must be pretty unique

Cheers,

QS

EDIT:

I just had a thought. Have you put anything in your app that says 'Send a screenshot to Facebook/Twitter' or something like that? i.e. have you mentioned social networking but (obviously) not been able to implement it yet, thus having Apple tell you 'you need social networking in your game'?

Or am I just reading everything wrong these days?

IntelligentDesigner

QS, *close - but no cigar*... the apps are only similar in one specific type of way, individually they are each vastly different. And each quite unique.

Apple formally told me directly to

"...not use GameSalad, then. Third party app builders do not allow you to take advantage of iOS features, and are holding you back."

This makes GS largely useless to me as a development tool, because it unfortunately stops short of letting me build the features I need. It does make a good prototyping tool, though. Just not anything that I can rely on for distribution.

In no way am I suggesting that people who are making run of the mill apps are going to have this trouble. If they are satisfied to clone something else similar to that which has already been approved, their app will probably also be approved (sadly, whether it works properly or not).

I think the problem I am having is with the type of apps I am working on. Trying to do something a little different entertainment wise. Not games per se... I think there are more than enough thousands of clones on the App Store, sort of like the warehouse at the end of "Raiders of the Lost Ark..."

Although I do have some great ideas for unique games later on, after I get my meat and potatoes apps marketed.

firemaplegames

@IntelligentDesigner: When you started posting on the forums, all you were looking for were templates for other people's games, like Space Invaders, Centipede, Galaga, etc. that you wanted to make derivative clones of...

IntelligentDesigner said:
Do you have a chapter on building logic for existing game styles yet? I'd like to not have to reinvent the wheel each time I want to make a derivative style. How about a chapter for basic logic for centipede, snake, dig-dug, space invaders, galaga, joust, tempest, tank. Just add new graphics and soundtracks and you've got new entertainment.

Now when you post you generally just post negative comments about GameSalad. Not always, but it starts to be a drag after a while.

There's lots of kids and creative people of all ages here on the forums. GameSalad allows them to do something that they never even thought possible before. It opens doors that they have never been able to open before.

And of course GameSalad isn't perfect. But it is just as quirky, buggy, flawed, and fun as EVERY piece of software that I have ever used in my entire life.

You say that you are making all these cool prototypes with GameSalad. Why don't you share them with everyone? Show people the neat stuff you're working on. Inspire people. We're all here just trying to learn.

I don't mean to single you out. I'm just getting bummed out by all the negativity around here lately.

Joe

scitunes

+1

Rob2

@QS your edit....genius Holmes

@FMG good stuff... but the negativity that some of us display comes from the total frustration with a company that simply refuses to respond to paid users problems and concerns time after time, an appalling display of corporate arrogance and not what the young users should perceive as the way a beta is normally run.

Shpint

+1 for firemaplegames

jonmulcahy

Why on earth would they require social networking? They don't offer it themselves and it won't be ready until the fall. They would never require you build in a third party tool.

In regards to in app purchasing, this doesn't make any sense either. Why would ebooks need in app purchasing or a website reader like engadget has?

I've submitted many updates and a new app since that 3.3.1 came out, and never had a problem.

scitunes

sounds like a bunch of lies to me.