The one thing that drew me to GameSalad in the first place was ease of use. I'm very much an artist not a coder. I'm just hoping that ease of use is high on the list of priorities for Graphene alongside functionality.
@strag said:
The one thing that drew me to GameSalad in the first place was ease of use. I'm very much an artist not a coder. I'm just hoping that ease of use is high on the list of priorities for Graphene alongside functionality.
By the looks of it Graphene will be the same as Creator but with extra functionality so it will suit a user who wants to use drag and drop in addtion to supporting a user who wishes to code and one who wants to do a bit if both. You will have the best of both worlds in addition if you don't want to code im sure there will be sample code you can download to add specific functionality which you can cut and paste ... All in all it will be a great tool if it works as described ...
Anyone here already use c or c++ or lua? Any recommendations on how to start learning these languages? I actually wouldn't mind learning about them in my spare time.I found a few links. What do you think of these:
@dreichelt I would like to know what language is the best to learn and I am hoping to get some answers at the monthly meetup but they may not be ready to give out more information. For example what language/s can I write plugins in and what language/s do I use for game scripts. Hopefully I can at least get an answer to that so I can start learning the one that best suits me.
I mean if I want to write plugins and went and learned c++ then found out I needed Lua I would be a little aggravated.
@dreichelt You will overwhelm yourself doing all that at once and your brain will explode only joking. My sugesstion is to pick one programing language then run with it till you are good or till you master it then move to another or just learn one which meets your needs. I personally am only going to learn LUA if it does not meet all my needs ill move on to another if it does im sticking with it. I suggest you start with LUA as it is known for ease and speed after that move onto the other languages ...
@colander said:
dreichelt I would like to know what language is the best to learn and I am hoping to get some answers at the monthly meetup but they may not be ready to give out more information. For example what language/s can I write plugins in and what language/s do I use for game scripts. Hopefully I can at least get an answer to that so I can start learning the one that best suits me.
I mean if I want to write plugins and went and learned c++ then found out I needed Lua I would be a little aggravated.
Learn LUA and you will be able to write whatever plugin you need, its the language of choice for these type of things.
@Lovejoy said:
Learn LUA and you will be able to write whatever plugin you need, its the language of choice for these type of things.
Yes Lua is the one I think I just want confirmation if I can get it at the meet up. I would hate to spend months barking up the wrong tree so to speak.
@colander said:
Yes Lua is the one I think I just want confirmation if I can get it at the meet up. I would hate to spend months barking up the wrong tree so to speak.
From codewizard
@CodeWizard said:
Coding is in one of the following:
Visual coding with the behavior editor.
Manual scripting in Lua.
Native coding in C++ / Objective C / Java depending on platform
Im sure the meet-up will have lots of questions about graphene, so i guess it doesn't hurt to re ask and double check.
@colander whatever you do you won't be wasting time. There is no wrong tree just different options for what you want to do. LUA is just a flexible option. It is a good starting point to get into programming due to ease of use then you can build on that.
@neoman I just want to understand what can do what. I have some coding ability in VBA and can read and generally follow other peoples code in other languages. I am not a complete novice but close to it. What I don't have is a big picture view like how does it all fit together.
I think option 1 is the current drag and drop, 2 is scripting to the game engine for plugins which can be bought or provided for free on the Marketplace and 3 is to create local code for events/features in a game which can be passed around by the users if they want and would probably need to be manually added to each game. But I don't really know I am just guessing hopefully at the meetup I can get more of the big picture view.
@colander Since you mentioned VBA, here is a small picture. I see it being similar, you will have the visual view where you can drag and drop actors and buttons, then you will have the Module tab which will expose the code where you can edit it. Not sure if that makes sense to you, its kinda late here so maybe i didn't explain it right.
I suspect plugs ins will be written in C++ or object C as they will be integrating themselves into the software. Most languages are similar in structure. Once you learn one it is easier to learn another. I know Java and I can read and understand object C and LUA. Once you understand how code is structured aka, why you use a ; or why you use () and such it it translates for the most part across many languages. I would start with object C as it's what xcode is based on and it's a bit easier to learn.
Based on the info provided and my experience with other engines, I don't think you'll be able to write plugins in Lua, but in the native languages. In Lua you'll only be able to use the functions and features provided by Graphene. A simple example of this would be display text function.
Still if you are going to use Graphene and want to program, I think you should learn Lua. You'll only need native languages like C++ / Objective-C / Java if you want to add functionality to the engine (= create plugins). Say Graphene doesn't have some Ad service integrated out of the box. You could add that service using the native languages.
@Manto said:
Based on the info provided and my experience with other engines, I don't think you'll be able to write plugins in Lua, but in the native languages. In Lua you'll only be able to use the functions and features provided by Graphene. A simple example of this would be display text function.
Still if you are going to use Graphene and want to program, I think you should learn Lua. You'll only need native languages like C++ / Objective-C / Java if you want to add functionality to the engine (= create plugins). Say Graphene doesn't have some Ad service integrated out of the box. You could add that service using the native languages.
Wouldn't you still need to know LUA in order to define whatever plug-in you integrate?
Been holding off on posting in this thread as its got a bit crazy, but i just wanted to say I'm really looking forward to the new engine! I'm not that bothered about being a beta tester as I've no time like many other people, I'm busy making games and working my day job so just will be happy to use it when its out! and I'm sure gamesalad will still serve me well after this is released too!
i really don't know what all the fuss is about! people are going nuts over this, if you feel that strongly about using something more fully featured rite away, go use something more fully featured! theres plenty out there! go make some games and let the GS guys get on with it
and happy 2015 everyone, ... rite wheres my Hover Board!
@jay2dx said:
Been holding off on posting in this thread as its got a bit crazy, but i just wanted to say I'm really looking forward to the new engine! I'm not that bothered about being a beta tester as I've no time like many other people, I'm busy making games and working my day job so just will be happy to use it when its out! and I'm sure gamesalad will still serve me well after this is released too!
i really don't know what all the fuss is about! people are going nuts over this, if you feel that strongly about using something more fully featured rite away, go use something more fully featured! theres plenty out there! go make some games and let the GS guys get on with it
and happy 2015 everyone, ... rite wheres my Hover Board!
Exactly my point of view too.
Also, my belief is that about 99.9% of all GS users use GS to get away from coding like C# (for different reasons) and the GS team most definitely knows this. If they would abandon their visual programming (not likely to happen) they would be doomed since Graphene has no possibility to compete with some other engines that are already very mature in the area where coding is required (and the GS team of course knows this already too).
However, that Graphene will support coding (in order to complement the visual programming of the creator) will be great since the 0.1% that will actually use that will be the ones that produce the plugins that everyone else can use if they want/need it/pay for it. Also, it will most likely take a long time for Graphene to be anywhere near as mature as GS already is (look at history in order to predict the future...) and GS will most likely live for quite a long time still as it deserves (although there are lots of areas that could be improved in GS of course - some of which will never see the light of day... maybe in Graphene, further down the road).
Hey are URL schemes included in grapheme? In Xcode there is a thing called URL schemes where you can open your app with a URL, very useful for sharing your game. Not sure if you can include it as a plugin because it has to do with the plist. Might be a good feature request if Graphene isn't including it.
It looks like I'm late to the party on this one. Although, I had given up on GameSalad. I thought I removed the bookmark from my list of Development links. But surprisingly, it was still there. So, out of curiosity, I decided to see what was going on.
@Chunkypixels said:
Hmmmm... Ok... So I might as well be the one to break the euphoria...
So if GameSalad already struggles to maintain and update just one engine in a timely fashion, hows it going to be when they have 2 to support?
This was a very good post. I'm also glad to see it posted so early in the conversation. I remember how "Project Masala" was supposed to be this awesome thing, and it could have been, but instead it was just limited HTML5 exporting.
I think that's why Graphene SDK is important. GameSalad is a beginner's tool. It's an introduction into game development. There was a conscious decision to keep things simple. But unfortunately, "Pro" didn't really feel like pro. There was a no custom coding and there were pesky issues like Metrics Gathering. These seem more like political than technical issues to me, so perhaps a brand new SDK frees the GameSalad team to make a proper and professional game development software
@CodeWizard said:
We'll be releasing more information about Graphene soon. I hope everyone can remain patient while we get that info together. Until then, sign up for the beta!
Not so fast! This feels like more Game Salad drama. What's different this time?
Does Graphene SDK have mandatory metrics gathering?
Does Graphene SDK import old GameSalad projects?
Does Graphene SDK have proper HTML5 exporting?
@gattoman said:
Native code in Swift I assume as well.
I was wondering why there was all this talk about Objective-C and not Swift? Considering that there hasn't been an official reply is discouraging.
The ironic part is that Graphene SDK beta was announced around the same time as another software development beta. I thought I was done bouncing around with development tools. It seems that I might have to keep reloading the GameSalad forums. I'm not quite sure if this is just more drama or if the team is finally getting it right.
I was wondering why there was all this talk about Objective-C and not Swift? Considering that there hasn't been an official reply is discouraging.
It's the holiday season in the U.S. Gamesalad is basically closed down until Jan 5th I believe. I'm pretty sure I got an email about that couple weeks ago...
@Photics said:
I was wondering why there was all this talk about Objective-C and not Swift? Considering that there hasn't been an official reply is discouraging.
I would assume that since Graphene will be truly cross platform (and so the Windows and Mac versions will always be identical), and since there will be platforms other than iOS supported, that Swift would be limiting. It may be that Swift will be an option too, but Objective-C doesn't limit the platform you're working on or the platform you're working for.
@Armelline said:
It may be that Swift will be an option too, but Objective-C doesn't limit the platform you're working on or the platform you're working for.
Well, my point was that they did respond to other stuff. I know it's the break, but there have been some posts in yellow. Apple has been promoting swift and metal. How does Graphene fit into that?
I like what Stencyl did with Haxe. Here, I don't want to have to use Objective-C for certain tasks and then another language for something else. Heh, but the different programming languages are starting to blur together for me. If Lua is the center of Graphene SDK, how is that different than Corona?
What about Joints and Polygon collisions (More than just square and circle hit boundaries)? Will graphene "LUA" approach this in a solid way. And NO do not mention any working workarounds. Workarounds do not fall with in the boundaries of this conversation.
What about Joints and Polygon collisions (More than just square and circle hit boundaries)? Will graphene "LUA" approach this in a solid way. And NO do not mention any working workarounds. Workarounds do not fall with in the boundaries of this conversation.
Comments
The one thing that drew me to GameSalad in the first place was ease of use. I'm very much an artist not a coder. I'm just hoping that ease of use is high on the list of priorities for Graphene alongside functionality.
By the looks of it Graphene will be the same as Creator but with extra functionality so it will suit a user who wants to use drag and drop in addtion to supporting a user who wishes to code and one who wants to do a bit if both. You will have the best of both worlds in addition if you don't want to code im sure there will be sample code you can download to add specific functionality which you can cut and paste ... All in all it will be a great tool if it works as described ...
Free Mini Games and Demo Templates
Anyone here already use c or c++ or lua? Any recommendations on how to start learning these languages? I actually wouldn't mind learning about them in my spare time.I found a few links. What do you think of these:
http://101.lv/learn/C++/htm/ch01.htm#Heading3
http://www.learn-c.org/
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/hh341490
http://csharp.net-tutorials.com/basics/introduction/
http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-Beginners-Guide-C-2nd/dp/0672305100/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1420101197&sr=1-9&keywords=c+programming+for+beginners
https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-computer-science-harvardx-cs50x#.VKUHPFfF-KU
@dreichelt I would like to know what language is the best to learn and I am hoping to get some answers at the monthly meetup but they may not be ready to give out more information. For example what language/s can I write plugins in and what language/s do I use for game scripts. Hopefully I can at least get an answer to that so I can start learning the one that best suits me.
I mean if I want to write plugins and went and learned c++ then found out I needed Lua I would be a little aggravated.
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
@dreichelt You will overwhelm yourself doing all that at once and your brain will explode only joking. My sugesstion is to pick one programing language then run with it till you are good or till you master it then move to another or just learn one which meets your needs. I personally am only going to learn LUA if it does not meet all my needs ill move on to another if it does im sticking with it. I suggest you start with LUA as it is known for ease and speed after that move onto the other languages ...
http://lua-users.org/wiki/TutorialDirectory
Free Mini Games and Demo Templates
Learn LUA and you will be able to write whatever plugin you need, its the language of choice for these type of things.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
If it is good enough for Angry Birds it will be good enough for us ... ha ha
Free Mini Games and Demo Templates
Add WoW, LOTR and plenty more main stream games to that list.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
Thanks guys. I'll check out the lua tutorials and start there. Def don't want to my brain exploding! @neoman
@Lovejoy yeah agree and add to that it's supported by lots of engines too ...
Free Mini Games and Demo Templates
Yes Lua is the one I think I just want confirmation if I can get it at the meet up. I would hate to spend months barking up the wrong tree so to speak.
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
From codewizard
Im sure the meet-up will have lots of questions about graphene, so i guess it doesn't hurt to re ask and double check.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
@colander whatever you do you won't be wasting time. There is no wrong tree just different options for what you want to do. LUA is just a flexible option. It is a good starting point to get into programming due to ease of use then you can build on that.
Free Mini Games and Demo Templates
@neoman I just want to understand what can do what. I have some coding ability in VBA and can read and generally follow other peoples code in other languages. I am not a complete novice but close to it. What I don't have is a big picture view like how does it all fit together.
I think option 1 is the current drag and drop, 2 is scripting to the game engine for plugins which can be bought or provided for free on the Marketplace and 3 is to create local code for events/features in a game which can be passed around by the users if they want and would probably need to be manually added to each game. But I don't really know I am just guessing hopefully at the meetup I can get more of the big picture view.
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
@colander Since you mentioned VBA, here is a small picture. I see it being similar, you will have the visual view where you can drag and drop actors and buttons, then you will have the Module tab which will expose the code where you can edit it. Not sure if that makes sense to you, its kinda late here so maybe i didn't explain it right.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
I suspect plugs ins will be written in C++ or object C as they will be integrating themselves into the software. Most languages are similar in structure. Once you learn one it is easier to learn another. I know Java and I can read and understand object C and LUA. Once you understand how code is structured aka, why you use a ; or why you use () and such it it translates for the most part across many languages. I would start with object C as it's what xcode is based on and it's a bit easier to learn.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
Based on the info provided and my experience with other engines, I don't think you'll be able to write plugins in Lua, but in the native languages. In Lua you'll only be able to use the functions and features provided by Graphene. A simple example of this would be display text function.
Still if you are going to use Graphene and want to program, I think you should learn Lua. You'll only need native languages like C++ / Objective-C / Java if you want to add functionality to the engine (= create plugins). Say Graphene doesn't have some Ad service integrated out of the box. You could add that service using the native languages.
Wouldn't you still need to know LUA in order to define whatever plug-in you integrate?
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
Been holding off on posting in this thread as its got a bit crazy, but i just wanted to say I'm really looking forward to the new engine! I'm not that bothered about being a beta tester as I've no time like many other people, I'm busy making games and working my day job so just will be happy to use it when its out! and I'm sure gamesalad will still serve me well after this is released too!
i really don't know what all the fuss is about! people are going nuts over this, if you feel that strongly about using something more fully featured rite away, go use something more fully featured! theres plenty out there! go make some games and let the GS guys get on with it
and happy 2015 everyone, ... rite wheres my Hover Board!
You'll likely need Lua to call the functions of a plugin, but that should be it (related to use of plugins).
We're relying on you @Manto!
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Just be warned learning any C lanuage is no walk in the park.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
Exactly my point of view too.
Also, my belief is that about 99.9% of all GS users use GS to get away from coding like C# (for different reasons) and the GS team most definitely knows this. If they would abandon their visual programming (not likely to happen) they would be doomed since Graphene has no possibility to compete with some other engines that are already very mature in the area where coding is required (and the GS team of course knows this already too).
However, that Graphene will support coding (in order to complement the visual programming of the creator) will be great since the 0.1% that will actually use that will be the ones that produce the plugins that everyone else can use if they want/need it/pay for it. Also, it will most likely take a long time for Graphene to be anywhere near as mature as GS already is (look at history in order to predict the future...) and GS will most likely live for quite a long time still as it deserves (although there are lots of areas that could be improved in GS of course - some of which will never see the light of day... maybe in Graphene, further down the road).
Hey are URL schemes included in grapheme? In Xcode there is a thing called URL schemes where you can open your app with a URL, very useful for sharing your game. Not sure if you can include it as a plugin because it has to do with the plist. Might be a good feature request if Graphene isn't including it.
It looks like I'm late to the party on this one. Although, I had given up on GameSalad. I thought I removed the bookmark from my list of Development links. But surprisingly, it was still there. So, out of curiosity, I decided to see what was going on.
This was a very good post. I'm also glad to see it posted so early in the conversation. I remember how "Project Masala" was supposed to be this awesome thing, and it could have been, but instead it was just limited HTML5 exporting.
I think that's why Graphene SDK is important. GameSalad is a beginner's tool. It's an introduction into game development. There was a conscious decision to keep things simple. But unfortunately, "Pro" didn't really feel like pro. There was a no custom coding and there were pesky issues like Metrics Gathering. These seem more like political than technical issues to me, so perhaps a brand new SDK frees the GameSalad team to make a proper and professional game development software
Not so fast! This feels like more Game Salad drama. What's different this time?
I was wondering why there was all this talk about Objective-C and not Swift? Considering that there hasn't been an official reply is discouraging.
The ironic part is that Graphene SDK beta was announced around the same time as another software development beta. I thought I was done bouncing around with development tools. It seems that I might have to keep reloading the GameSalad forums. I'm not quite sure if this is just more drama or if the team is finally getting it right.
It's the holiday season in the U.S. Gamesalad is basically closed down until Jan 5th I believe. I'm pretty sure I got an email about that couple weeks ago...
http://jamie-cross.net/posts/ ✮ Udemy: Introduction to Mobile Games Development ✮ Learn Mobile Game Development in One Day Using Gamesalad ✮ My Patreon Page
I would assume that since Graphene will be truly cross platform (and so the Windows and Mac versions will always be identical), and since there will be platforms other than iOS supported, that Swift would be limiting. It may be that Swift will be an option too, but Objective-C doesn't limit the platform you're working on or the platform you're working for.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Well, my point was that they did respond to other stuff. I know it's the break, but there have been some posts in yellow. Apple has been promoting swift and metal. How does Graphene fit into that?
I like what Stencyl did with Haxe. Here, I don't want to have to use Objective-C for certain tasks and then another language for something else. Heh, but the different programming languages are starting to blur together for me. If Lua is the center of Graphene SDK, how is that different than Corona?
OK.. on a serious note.
What about Joints and Polygon collisions (More than just square and circle hit boundaries)? Will graphene "LUA" approach this in a solid way. And NO do not mention any working workarounds. Workarounds do not fall with in the boundaries of this conversation.
A little Birdie already said both were in there.
http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/73688/state-of-gamesalad-on-10-29-2014/p1