@DeepBlueApps said:
I was going to make one of our very popular competition mini games, remember the other 2 with the loopy loop jump the best distance and rotating actor through the maze?
I loved those competitions. I don't think I actually entered one, but I played the games and enjoyed the event. That damn rotating actor... I could kill you for that.
tatiangMember, Sous Chef, PRO, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 11,949
Great discussion here. To think that we would just close this thread is overlooking the fact that moderators also want the community to be strong, to understand the rules where they might be confusing, and to suggest changes where they might improve things.
We do close threads when they get nasty or way off topic. But the percentage of threads we close is easily below 1%.
And I'll admit that I struggle with the rules on a daily basis. They aren't 100% clear, they aren't 100% strict or lenient, and each case I come across I weigh against what I believe is fair for all parties involved and best for the community as a whole. It's not an easy task to be a volunteer moderator but I also won't make excuses... I do wield power and others aren't always happy with my choices.
I think it's good to get out in the open something about how the rules were re-created. @tenrdrmer and I noticed for a long time (other moderators had commented on this, too, of course) that the rules were confusing and contradictory, that some members were blatantly bending or breaking them without consequence, and that many people were complaining about other members getting away with this and about not understanding certain rules as they were written. So we decided it was time to re-write them. We included a few moderators and once we had a first draft, we included GS Staff as well. Should we have included all moderators from the get-go? Probably but we chose not to in the interest of efficiency. It seemed easier to manage a Google Doc with two or three people than with a dozen. Once the first draft was done, I posted it for all moderators to review and comment on. This was back in March. There were few comments and most of it was "great job! looks good" type of feedback. So we moved forward with finalizing them. I should add that @DeepBlueApps and @beefy_clyro were among those included in that private discussion.
Sometimes what is shared publicly ("OMG What are the mods smoking?!") is different from what is shared privately ("Looks great! Nice work, guys!") -- I paraphrase but not by much. I caution people to consider that there is always more to the story when someone slams the moderators or GameSalad, Inc. Not that they are necessarily wrong but just that there's more to it.
We also re-wrote the aging FAQs and re-worked some of the subforum categories and names (e.g. Commercial/"Help Wanted," "Teachers Forum," etc.) with the help of a GS Staff member.
All of this was done with the intent of making things more organized and clearer. Did we succeed? Hmm. I think it was an improvement but it's not perfect. People are going to be unhappy when the rules are too strict and unhappy when the rules are too lenient. But as I started this post off saying, I think it's good we're having this conversation.
@tatiang Whilst you put 2 "quotes" in the open, you've highlighted the fact that you sent an initial draft for feedback, not a completed draft of all rules. It in no way contained the fact that threads offering free templates would be shut down … I'm just going to let that sink in a minute … A thread offering a free template!
Whilst you're initial rules may of gotten a bravo, I don't believe the current lockdown would of … I've also noticed one of my thread titles has been changed as it had special characters, more lock down for a trivial matter really, never saw that in the initial draft.
If someone wants to give up their own time and creation in a thread on a public forum, why should that get locked down? Whilst you may argue its cleaner to keep all templates in a thread, what if said poster doesn't continually update that thread like openstockproject did with art? I'm not going to subscribe, that means i've now missed a potentially really good template. What if i don't like that persons work for one reason or another? Again, i'll potentially miss what is perfect for me. What if I do like a thread and i subscribe just to be given a notification from every man and his dog that posts in the thread?
The whole "OMG What are the mods smoking?!" is not aimed at paid templates etc, i've voiced my opinion on that but not much, I get the fact GS doesn't want people straying offsite so to speak! Although I think they should realise that what brings so many people to the site over the years was the people who done countless support and video tutorials like tshirtbooth, dba, gshelper … I'm forever seeing comments on how they got them into GS. Its also worth thinking about if you lose all these members and they stop providing everything they have offered free over the years, that they better hire some more staff as there'll be masses more support tickets flooding in!
Im straying slightly so sorry about that, my quote above was more aimed at strictly the free part, like i said, i get the keeping the lights on, but giving away free content, in my mind, that should never be dictated! So I guess whilst it was never meant in a derogatory way (It was actually slightly changed from what became a joke from John W Henry about the Emirates), my point in tact for locking down free threads remain!
tatiangMember, Sous Chef, PRO, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 11,949
@beefy_clyro said:
tatiang Whilst you put 2 "quotes" in the open, you've highlighted the fact that you sent an initial draft for feedback, not a completed draft of all rules.
That's a valid point.
It in no way contained the fact that threads offering free templates would be shut down … I'm just going to let that sink in a minute … A thread offering a free template!
I know people feel really strongly about this rule and feel it's ridiculous. And I understand that viewpoint. It was never and isn't about trying to prevent people from sharing free templates or other assets. It was because quite a few people did so in a veiled attempt to drive traffic to paid sites. And GS had a problem with that. I think the free assets rule needs some massaging and I appreciate that people are harping on that rule because it's clearly getting in the way of people feeling they can freely share... free things.
Whilst you're initial rules may of gotten a bravo, I don't believe the current lockdown would of … I've also noticed one of my thread titles has been changed as it had special characters, more lock down for a trivial matter really, never saw that in the initial draft.
Yes, I did remove special characters from several thread titles including yours after it was brought to my attention by another member who felt I was giving special treatment to all of you. I wasn't... I just either don't notice or get tired of removing those characters all the time so some times it doesn't get removed. I can't win!
The whole "OMG What are the mods smoking?!" is not aimed at paid templates etc, i've voiced my opinion on that but not much, I get the fact GS doesn't want people straying offsite so to speak! Although I think they should realise that what brings so many people to the site over the years was the people who done countless support and video tutorials like tshirtbooth, dba, gshelper … I'm forever seeing comments on how they got them into GS.
No doubt. I have them to thank just as many of us do. And I've thanked them personally even when/after I've had disagreements with them.
Its also worth thinking about if you lose all these members and they stop providing everything they have offered free over the years, that they better hire some more staff as there'll be masses more support tickets flooding in!
That fact is not lost on me either.
Im straying slightly so sorry about that, my quote above was more aimed at strictly the free part, like i said, i get the keeping the lights on, but giving away free content, in my mind, that should never be dictated! So I guess whilst it was never meant in a derogatory way (It was actually slightly changed from what became a joke from John W Henry about the Emirates), my point in tact for locking down free threads remain!
I guess that just got my goat a bit... we're all a bit fired up about what the rules should/shouldn't be, who enforces (or doesn't) them, and why the **** we can't just let people give free things to other people when they want to.
I'm optimistic that the rules can be adjusted to figure out a way to allow the generosity of those who want to continue to do so to shine through.
This discussion is good and although tempers will flare from time to time here, I'm hoping it benefits the community generally going forward. If we get some tweaks and things cleared up etc, then its been worthwhile in my eyes!
I apologise if I offended you in any way, never my intention, was more joking and an instant reaction to something i felt was ridiculous! I was laughing as i typed, not that you would see that of course!
Its not really a biggie for me about the characters in the title threads, is it actually in the rules? If it is, my bad!
I don't visit the forums that often anymore, hadn't even noticed they had been removed, saw a comment and then noticed mine disappeared without explanation. Like I said, no biggie and wasn't going to mention it until I saw this discussion!
@tatiang said:
I know people feel really strongly about this rule and feel it's ridiculous. And I understand that viewpoint. It was never and isn't about trying to prevent people from sharing free templates or other assets. It was because quite a few people did so in a veiled attempt to drive traffic to paid sites. And GS had a problem with that. I think the free assets rule needs some massaging and I appreciate that people are harping on that rule because it's clearly getting in the way of people feeling they can freely share... free things.
Why does GS have problems with that? Without the motivation of driving traffic to a paid site people will be less likely to spend time creating tutorials and other free assets. And those things make it easier for people to use GS, which is kinda the point of their existence, isn't it? This makes no sense to me...
Special characters helps me determine the games from the "need help threads" , As well as free templates. Not a major issue but it makes life harder, not easier which would indicate the new forum rules are not successful at "making it easier".
@tatiang said:
Yes, I did remove special characters from several thread titles including yours after it was brought to my attention by another member who felt I was giving special treatment to all of you. I wasn't... I just either don't notice or get tired of removing those characters all the time so some times it doesn't get removed. I can't win!
@tatiang is far too professional to say it so I will - that complaint was made by me. It was what I was primarily (though not exclusively) referring to when I commented that rules are applied to some people and not others.
I had the special characters removed from both of my (at the time) most recent threads. I normally avoid special characters and generally have avoided them, but I was posting a big thread that I wanted to get attention, and most similar threads had used such characters so I figured "why not?"
I noticed a while later that the special characters had been removed from both my threads and those of another member who's thread was near the top of the thread list (I think it was @Braydon_SFX but could be mistaken). I had no problem with that - I indignantly checked the rules and sure enough it was in there.
I noticed also, though, that several other threads had not had the titles removed, specifically one by @gyroscrope that was immediately below mine at the time. Literally a screen inch away. I figured there was literally no way the person who removed them from mine hadn't seen his too. Yet for hours after, no other threads were edited. So I raised it as a specific example of inconsistent application and potential favouritism when I was discussing my issues with the mods.
@beefy_clyro, yours just happened to get bumped up not long after and so when I was asked for examples (or offered them without being asked, I don't remember to be honest) I threw yours in there too.
The thread title special characters isn't a fight I'm interested in fighting. Sometimes I found them helpful, sometimes they annoyed me. I'm happy to let that rule remain - as long as it's fairly and consistently enforced (which it seems it is being now).
Braydon_SFXMember, Sous Chef, Bowlboy SidekickPosts: 9,273
Hey Ho!
Before I begin my little post (compared to some of yours), know that I haven't read the entire thread...So with that said:
@Armelline -- Thanks for tagging me or else I wouldn't have seen this thread - or at least seen it today.
So yes - I have seen that my thread title was altered. Does that make me mad? Not at all. Honestly I didn't know about that rule, and if I did, it completely slipped my mind. So thank you to whomever altered that for me; I want to be abiding with the forums rules. Why do I put those little stars in my title? Because I think it helps attract people to my free demo's thread and it may be useful to them. Of course, now that I'm aware of the rule I won't be putting special characters in my title; I couldn't care less.
Honestly, I believe that most of the new rules are okay and probably good in the long run -- I'm saying that and I run a third party site! I have no intention of linking people to our site so that they buy a template, I link them to the site so they can download a free template that'll help them learn a new concept.
Do I 100%, without a doubt, agree/like (with) all of the rules? No, and I don't know if anybody in this thread does either. That's fine. It's not our forum technically speaking.
I'm just glad that I can use the forums to help individuals who are pursuing their dreams to become a game designer. I also learn tons of things here, too!
People don't like change! I don't like change! When I'm dropping in from time to time, I'm seeing you can't do this, you can't do that, its just so negative and off putting! The characters isn't a big thing but honestly, what harm does it have on anyone?
All i see is that the new rules are causing more uproar than when they weren't being enforced, I believe along as someone isn't flaming things then they have a right to free speech and communicate that as they see fit!
Maybe the objectives of the forums etc have changed over time, I know it used to be a fun place to come, an inspiring place to come, a family like place to come, now its just well … meh! I feel I'm being controlled too much, I have a mrs for that, I don't need it in the cyber world
Good luck tuning your rules, I know you can't please everyone!
Although I read the forums everyday I post very little now. Most of the questions threads are all mostly questions from new users who haven't taken the time to read and watch videos et.. Most of the good threads are gone and buried and the usual veteran crew participation is shrinking rapidly as well as the feedback coming from GS. @Codewizard has been derelict in his weekly posts more and more.
Just my two cents. Any issue needs to be evaluated by logic. What effect are the current rules et. Having on the forum? Why are the veterans, who do most of the heavy lifting for GS and it's user base, leaving and/or not participating? Are the current people in charge capable of leadership and understand how to develop a culture?
These are the questions I would ask and try to answer honestly. The answer could he positive or negative. I personally have no dog in this fight as my life and development et.. Goes on forum or no forum. I make a choice to give back to the community as I don't need help, other than some trig stuff from time to time, to do my work. Besides for me I have those people on Skype et.. So for me this is a question of does this benefit others and the community? In my opinion the only one who suffers from this is new users and GS Corporate, as the provide no videos or reliable documents.
Im guessing the mods are constantly stroking their egos. I was told I am not allowed to comment on post that are not "recent" if a thread isn't answered it isn't answered. just another arbitrary rule for a bored insecure mod to enforce.
@DeepBlueApps said:
I used to provide links to free DBA templates for help threads (if we had anything that could help) but it got banned under the new rules although i was told to PM the user direct which i found absurd as it meant only one user would benefit when other users might have a look at the thread also seeking help on the subject matter.
Darren.
OH common DBA if you post the link in the forum a thread might get answered. cant have that.
We lose a lot of well known forum members which results to a certain time frame in which the forums become quite .. Well empty. However lets remember that new members will take their place so it won't be the end of the world and new people will find the need to help others and the community will start to build up again.
The forum rules are adjusted and we get to keep a few well known members, I don't personally know all of them such as @The_Gamesalad_Guru and all of their contributions but I am sure they are or were greatly appreciated, and the people who are currently in the position to change or modify the rules can see this and make changes to help keep them form leaving and continuing with their help and support.
Either way there is going to be an upset within the forums, but the end result could swing either way. It really comes down to how the rules are modified, if at all. Not really sure there is much anyone else can really say that hasn't been said on this thread.
gyroscopeI am here.Member, Sous Chef, PROPosts: 6,598
edited July 2014
@joshiwu said:
Im guessing the mods are constantly stroking their egos. I was told I am not allowed to comment on post that are not "recent" if a thread isn't answered it isn't answered. just another arbitrary rule for a bored insecure mod to enforce.
I'll say again: it's not about "them and us" - there isn't a seething mass of the monster "Mod" you're fighting...
Moderators are all normal, everyday people, asked to moderate the forums - at different times, unpaid as such...
By the law of averages, some of those might have an inflated ego maybe.... but I find your slightly insulting "the mods are constantly stroking their egos" as incorrect and inciteful.
As for comment about bored and insecure mods, it's a derogatory remark at a disparate group of people - (Mods aren't part of a "Special" Club) - which doesn't help anything.
@joshiwu If this thread did dissolve into rants, schoolyard taunts or a flame war I or another moderator WOULD close it, and for good reason.
@gyroscope said:
joshiwu If this thread did dissolve into rants, schoolyard taunts or a flame war I or another moderator WOULD close it, and for good reason.
Agree there is no need for this kind of behaviour. But rather than close a thread delete the offending posts and if they keep it up ban them.
The thread has been going for a while now has anyone got together to try and work out a solution? I would like to see move involvement from third party sites. It is a much richer environment when they add there assets, templates and assistance to the mix. That's good for everyone including GS.
gyroscopeI am here.Member, Sous Chef, PROPosts: 6,598
edited July 2014
@colander said:
The thread has been going for a while now has anyone got together to try and work out a solution? I would like to see move involvement from third party sites. It is a much richer environment when they add there assets, templates and assistance to the mix. That's good for everyone including GS.
I agree, this discussion has been going on for a long time - not sure much has been resolved - hope the thread gets back on track...
I think the discussion and issues this thread raises are important for the community and I'd really like to avoid it descending into insults and flames or baseless accusations.
From the Roadmap : "opening up the engine for third-party extension. It's important to us that we allow capable developers to get access to the engine and add new features to it."
Will the forums also only allow free extensions to be promoted? "Free" unfortunately also means thrown together, offered on the forums and forgotten. No support, as the original developer has moved on to other things and has no incentive to maintain or support it.
In this age of "social" marketing, it is all important to embrace the community efforts, monetised or not. By allowing little cottage industries to develop around your product, gives it validation and tells new users that it is something worthwhile to pursue. The more successful the third-party sites are, the more users your product will have. Their marketing efforts alone are invaluable.
Just look at U***y. Most of the features it has today started off as third-party (usually monetized) extensions. New ones are springing up all the time, even officially and actively promoted on the website.
GameSalad is a fantastic tool with huge potential as this ever growing market expands, now it is time to get its marketing and community policies out of the dark ages.
From the Roadmap : "opening up the engine for third-party extension. It's important to us that we allow capable developers to get access to the engine and add new features to it."
Will the forums also only allow free extensions to be promoted? "Free" unfortunately also means thrown together, offered on the forums and forgotten. No support, as the original developer has moved on to other things and has no incentive to maintain or support it.
In this age of "social" marketing, it is all important to embrace the community efforts, monetised or not. By allowing little cottage industries to develop around your product, gives it validation and something worthwhile to pursue. The more successful the third-party sites are, the more users your product will have.
Just look at Unity. Most of the features it has today started off as third-party (usually monetized) extensions. New ones are springing up all the time, even officially and actively promoted on the website.
GameSalad is a fantastic tool with huge potential as this ever growing market expands, now it is time to get its marketing and community policies out of the dark ages.
Yes really good post. I have been here almost a year now and the forums are not a vibrant as they were. It would be good to get the mojo back. Maybe with approved third party sites so it doesn't get cluttered with rubbish and scams. And by approved I don't mean they have to pay a fee or a cut/percentage of their sales, just vet them to make sure they are legit and add to the community.
That is a great point @colander! GS would benefit more from some of the third party sites, but if GS had a way to vet them first. The cut thing I am not sure of but I do see your point. It would also help with the GS Marketplace as it has become more of a dumping ground in its own way..
@Hopscotch said:
Just look at U***y. Most of the features it has today started off as third-party (usually monetized) extensions. New ones are springing up all the time, even officially and actively promoted on the website.
Two points here. Firstly, that's a very good point @Hopscotch. I really do think the community tools produced around Unity helped to solidify it and stoke its popularity. If we had tools that helped address some of GameSalad's weaknesses - like attribute management, project merging and actor layout and positioning - and those tools were openly and actively promoted by GameSalad it would take some of the pressure off them and make the system more useable for everyone.
Secondly, why are three letters of Unity starred out? Joke by Hopscotch or actual removal?
gyroscopeI am here.Member, Sous Chef, PROPosts: 6,598
edited July 2014
Hi BC, I don't think it's just the mention of other engines as such, it's been those times when people have wanted comparisons between GSC and a competitor's engine who have hidden agendas, to discredit GSC perhaps, or start a "flame war", etc; although not all of them, I'm sure...
So understandable some of those type of threads have been closed in the past -
Man goes into a Ford car dealership.
"Hello sir, how may I help you?"
"I'd like to buy a Citroen Picasso please."
"But this is a Ford dealership."
"I know. Let's talk about the Picasso and more importably compare it with a Ford Focus"
"OK, if you must..."
"Yes, and afterwards, I'd like to stand just here in this Ford dealership and shout at any of your customers past, present and future how much better the Citroen cars are compared with those made by Ford; and ask them to leave here and follow me to the Citroen dealership; and it's my right that you let me do that; and I'll be really upset if you tell me to shut up and you have no right to be upset by any of my behaviour and...."
@beefy_clyro said:
Hopscotch nailed it … We need to come out of the dark ages, not further into it!
Unity wouldn't of had letters taken out, there has just been times when there were people who didn't like competitors engines being mentioned
That is a true statement, but Gamesalald is in no way a competitor engine with Unity...lol
I think most of us have worked with both, but the speed to build with GS is just insanely fast and easy!
I think we should have a section for the "GS Vetted" Third party sites to be able to display their GS goodness, and as for @Armelline and any one person willing to help GS developers by giving out free templates to learn from, they should not be beat up in the least.
I hate to say it, but the worst thing here no one for the GS Management has made any comments or even displayed any support for either the mod or the developers.... and please do not take that as a them against us deal...
Comments
I loved those competitions. I don't think I actually entered one, but I played the games and enjoyed the event. That damn rotating actor... I could kill you for that.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Great discussion here. To think that we would just close this thread is overlooking the fact that moderators also want the community to be strong, to understand the rules where they might be confusing, and to suggest changes where they might improve things.
We do close threads when they get nasty or way off topic. But the percentage of threads we close is easily below 1%.
And I'll admit that I struggle with the rules on a daily basis. They aren't 100% clear, they aren't 100% strict or lenient, and each case I come across I weigh against what I believe is fair for all parties involved and best for the community as a whole. It's not an easy task to be a volunteer moderator but I also won't make excuses... I do wield power and others aren't always happy with my choices.
I think it's good to get out in the open something about how the rules were re-created. @tenrdrmer and I noticed for a long time (other moderators had commented on this, too, of course) that the rules were confusing and contradictory, that some members were blatantly bending or breaking them without consequence, and that many people were complaining about other members getting away with this and about not understanding certain rules as they were written. So we decided it was time to re-write them. We included a few moderators and once we had a first draft, we included GS Staff as well. Should we have included all moderators from the get-go? Probably but we chose not to in the interest of efficiency. It seemed easier to manage a Google Doc with two or three people than with a dozen. Once the first draft was done, I posted it for all moderators to review and comment on. This was back in March. There were few comments and most of it was "great job! looks good" type of feedback. So we moved forward with finalizing them. I should add that @DeepBlueApps and @beefy_clyro were among those included in that private discussion.
Sometimes what is shared publicly ("OMG What are the mods smoking?!") is different from what is shared privately ("Looks great! Nice work, guys!") -- I paraphrase but not by much. I caution people to consider that there is always more to the story when someone slams the moderators or GameSalad, Inc. Not that they are necessarily wrong but just that there's more to it.
We also re-wrote the aging FAQs and re-worked some of the subforum categories and names (e.g. Commercial/"Help Wanted," "Teachers Forum," etc.) with the help of a GS Staff member.
All of this was done with the intent of making things more organized and clearer. Did we succeed? Hmm. I think it was an improvement but it's not perfect. People are going to be unhappy when the rules are too strict and unhappy when the rules are too lenient. But as I started this post off saying, I think it's good we're having this conversation.
New to GameSalad? (FAQs) | Tutorials | Templates | Greenleaf Games | Educator & Certified GameSalad User
@tatiang Whilst you put 2 "quotes" in the open, you've highlighted the fact that you sent an initial draft for feedback, not a completed draft of all rules. It in no way contained the fact that threads offering free templates would be shut down … I'm just going to let that sink in a minute … A thread offering a free template!
Whilst you're initial rules may of gotten a bravo, I don't believe the current lockdown would of … I've also noticed one of my thread titles has been changed as it had special characters, more lock down for a trivial matter really, never saw that in the initial draft.
If someone wants to give up their own time and creation in a thread on a public forum, why should that get locked down? Whilst you may argue its cleaner to keep all templates in a thread, what if said poster doesn't continually update that thread like openstockproject did with art? I'm not going to subscribe, that means i've now missed a potentially really good template. What if i don't like that persons work for one reason or another? Again, i'll potentially miss what is perfect for me. What if I do like a thread and i subscribe just to be given a notification from every man and his dog that posts in the thread?
The whole "OMG What are the mods smoking?!" is not aimed at paid templates etc, i've voiced my opinion on that but not much, I get the fact GS doesn't want people straying offsite so to speak! Although I think they should realise that what brings so many people to the site over the years was the people who done countless support and video tutorials like tshirtbooth, dba, gshelper … I'm forever seeing comments on how they got them into GS. Its also worth thinking about if you lose all these members and they stop providing everything they have offered free over the years, that they better hire some more staff as there'll be masses more support tickets flooding in!
Im straying slightly so sorry about that, my quote above was more aimed at strictly the free part, like i said, i get the keeping the lights on, but giving away free content, in my mind, that should never be dictated! So I guess whilst it was never meant in a derogatory way (It was actually slightly changed from what became a joke from John W Henry about the Emirates), my point in tact for locking down free threads remain!
That's a valid point.
I know people feel really strongly about this rule and feel it's ridiculous. And I understand that viewpoint. It was never and isn't about trying to prevent people from sharing free templates or other assets. It was because quite a few people did so in a veiled attempt to drive traffic to paid sites. And GS had a problem with that. I think the free assets rule needs some massaging and I appreciate that people are harping on that rule because it's clearly getting in the way of people feeling they can freely share... free things.
Yes, I did remove special characters from several thread titles including yours after it was brought to my attention by another member who felt I was giving special treatment to all of you. I wasn't... I just either don't notice or get tired of removing those characters all the time so some times it doesn't get removed. I can't win!
No doubt. I have them to thank just as many of us do. And I've thanked them personally even when/after I've had disagreements with them.
That fact is not lost on me either.
I guess that just got my goat a bit... we're all a bit fired up about what the rules should/shouldn't be, who enforces (or doesn't) them, and why the **** we can't just let people give free things to other people when they want to.
I'm optimistic that the rules can be adjusted to figure out a way to allow the generosity of those who want to continue to do so to shine through.
Cheers.
New to GameSalad? (FAQs) | Tutorials | Templates | Greenleaf Games | Educator & Certified GameSalad User
Special characters in the title of threads has been banned? Is that a joke? Come on guys this is getting silly now
Darren.
This discussion is good and although tempers will flare from time to time here, I'm hoping it benefits the community generally going forward. If we get some tweaks and things cleared up etc, then its been worthwhile in my eyes!
I apologise if I offended you in any way, never my intention, was more joking and an instant reaction to something i felt was ridiculous! I was laughing as i typed, not that you would see that of course!
Its not really a biggie for me about the characters in the title threads, is it actually in the rules? If it is, my bad!
I don't visit the forums that often anymore, hadn't even noticed they had been removed, saw a comment and then noticed mine disappeared without explanation. Like I said, no biggie and wasn't going to mention it until I saw this discussion!
Cheers
Why does GS have problems with that? Without the motivation of driving traffic to a paid site people will be less likely to spend time creating tutorials and other free assets. And those things make it easier for people to use GS, which is kinda the point of their existence, isn't it? This makes no sense to me...
Just some food for thoughts.
^^ Bingo
@tatiang is far too professional to say it so I will - that complaint was made by me. It was what I was primarily (though not exclusively) referring to when I commented that rules are applied to some people and not others.
I had the special characters removed from both of my (at the time) most recent threads. I normally avoid special characters and generally have avoided them, but I was posting a big thread that I wanted to get attention, and most similar threads had used such characters so I figured "why not?"
I noticed a while later that the special characters had been removed from both my threads and those of another member who's thread was near the top of the thread list (I think it was @Braydon_SFX but could be mistaken). I had no problem with that - I indignantly checked the rules and sure enough it was in there.
I noticed also, though, that several other threads had not had the titles removed, specifically one by @gyroscrope that was immediately below mine at the time. Literally a screen inch away. I figured there was literally no way the person who removed them from mine hadn't seen his too. Yet for hours after, no other threads were edited. So I raised it as a specific example of inconsistent application and potential favouritism when I was discussing my issues with the mods.
@beefy_clyro, yours just happened to get bumped up not long after and so when I was asked for examples (or offered them without being asked, I don't remember to be honest) I threw yours in there too.
The thread title special characters isn't a fight I'm interested in fighting. Sometimes I found them helpful, sometimes they annoyed me. I'm happy to let that rule remain - as long as it's fairly and consistently enforced (which it seems it is being now).
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Hey Ho!
Before I begin my little post (compared to some of yours), know that I haven't read the entire thread...So with that said:
@Armelline -- Thanks for tagging me or else I wouldn't have seen this thread - or at least seen it today.
So yes - I have seen that my thread title was altered. Does that make me mad? Not at all. Honestly I didn't know about that rule, and if I did, it completely slipped my mind. So thank you to whomever altered that for me; I want to be abiding with the forums rules. Why do I put those little stars in my title? Because I think it helps attract people to my free demo's thread and it may be useful to them. Of course, now that I'm aware of the rule I won't be putting special characters in my title; I couldn't care less.
Honestly, I believe that most of the new rules are okay and probably good in the long run -- I'm saying that and I run a third party site! I have no intention of linking people to our site so that they buy a template, I link them to the site so they can download a free template that'll help them learn a new concept.
Do I 100%, without a doubt, agree/like (with) all of the rules? No, and I don't know if anybody in this thread does either. That's fine. It's not our forum technically speaking.
I'm just glad that I can use the forums to help individuals who are pursuing their dreams to become a game designer. I also learn tons of things here, too!
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People don't like change! I don't like change! When I'm dropping in from time to time, I'm seeing you can't do this, you can't do that, its just so negative and off putting! The characters isn't a big thing but honestly, what harm does it have on anyone?
All i see is that the new rules are causing more uproar than when they weren't being enforced, I believe along as someone isn't flaming things then they have a right to free speech and communicate that as they see fit!
Maybe the objectives of the forums etc have changed over time, I know it used to be a fun place to come, an inspiring place to come, a family like place to come, now its just well … meh! I feel I'm being controlled too much, I have a mrs for that, I don't need it in the cyber world
Good luck tuning your rules, I know you can't please everyone!
Cheers
Although I read the forums everyday I post very little now. Most of the questions threads are all mostly questions from new users who haven't taken the time to read and watch videos et.. Most of the good threads are gone and buried and the usual veteran crew participation is shrinking rapidly as well as the feedback coming from GS. @Codewizard has been derelict in his weekly posts more and more.
Just my two cents. Any issue needs to be evaluated by logic. What effect are the current rules et. Having on the forum? Why are the veterans, who do most of the heavy lifting for GS and it's user base, leaving and/or not participating? Are the current people in charge capable of leadership and understand how to develop a culture?
These are the questions I would ask and try to answer honestly. The answer could he positive or negative. I personally have no dog in this fight as my life and development et.. Goes on forum or no forum. I make a choice to give back to the community as I don't need help, other than some trig stuff from time to time, to do my work. Besides for me I have those people on Skype et.. So for me this is a question of does this benefit others and the community? In my opinion the only one who suffers from this is new users and GS Corporate, as the provide no videos or reliable documents.
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Im guessing the mods are constantly stroking their egos. I was told I am not allowed to comment on post that are not "recent" if a thread isn't answered it isn't answered. just another arbitrary rule for a bored insecure mod to enforce.
OH common DBA if you post the link in the forum a thread might get answered. cant have that.
Hell may have frozen over, but I agreed with every single thing you just said
Well put indeed.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
This could go in two .. Or More directions.
We lose a lot of well known forum members which results to a certain time frame in which the forums become quite .. Well empty. However lets remember that new members will take their place so it won't be the end of the world and new people will find the need to help others and the community will start to build up again.
The forum rules are adjusted and we get to keep a few well known members, I don't personally know all of them such as @The_Gamesalad_Guru and all of their contributions but I am sure they are or were greatly appreciated, and the people who are currently in the position to change or modify the rules can see this and make changes to help keep them form leaving and continuing with their help and support.
Either way there is going to be an upset within the forums, but the end result could swing either way. It really comes down to how the rules are modified, if at all. Not really sure there is much anyone else can really say that hasn't been said on this thread.
I'll say again: it's not about "them and us" - there isn't a seething mass of the monster "Mod" you're fighting...
Moderators are all normal, everyday people, asked to moderate the forums - at different times, unpaid as such...
By the law of averages, some of those might have an inflated ego maybe.... but I find your slightly insulting "the mods are constantly stroking their egos" as incorrect and inciteful.
As for comment about bored and insecure mods, it's a derogatory remark at a disparate group of people - (Mods aren't part of a "Special" Club) - which doesn't help anything.
@joshiwu If this thread did dissolve into rants, schoolyard taunts or a flame war I or another moderator WOULD close it, and for good reason.
""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps
Agree there is no need for this kind of behaviour. But rather than close a thread delete the offending posts and if they keep it up ban them.
The thread has been going for a while now has anyone got together to try and work out a solution? I would like to see move involvement from third party sites. It is a much richer environment when they add there assets, templates and assistance to the mix. That's good for everyone including GS.
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I agree, this discussion has been going on for a long time - not sure much has been resolved - hope the thread gets back on track...
""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps
I think the discussion and issues this thread raises are important for the community and I'd really like to avoid it descending into insults and flames or baseless accusations.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Lets look into the far future...
From the Roadmap : "opening up the engine for third-party extension. It's important to us that we allow capable developers to get access to the engine and add new features to it."
Will the forums also only allow free extensions to be promoted? "Free" unfortunately also means thrown together, offered on the forums and forgotten. No support, as the original developer has moved on to other things and has no incentive to maintain or support it.
In this age of "social" marketing, it is all important to embrace the community efforts, monetised or not. By allowing little cottage industries to develop around your product, gives it validation and tells new users that it is something worthwhile to pursue. The more successful the third-party sites are, the more users your product will have. Their marketing efforts alone are invaluable.
Just look at U***y. Most of the features it has today started off as third-party (usually monetized) extensions. New ones are springing up all the time, even officially and actively promoted on the website.
GameSalad is a fantastic tool with huge potential as this ever growing market expands, now it is time to get its marketing and community policies out of the dark ages.
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Yes really good post. I have been here almost a year now and the forums are not a vibrant as they were. It would be good to get the mojo back. Maybe with approved third party sites so it doesn't get cluttered with rubbish and scams. And by approved I don't mean they have to pay a fee or a cut/percentage of their sales, just vet them to make sure they are legit and add to the community.
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
That is a great point @colander! GS would benefit more from some of the third party sites, but if GS had a way to vet them first. The cut thing I am not sure of but I do see your point. It would also help with the GS Marketplace as it has become more of a dumping ground in its own way..
Two points here. Firstly, that's a very good point @Hopscotch. I really do think the community tools produced around Unity helped to solidify it and stoke its popularity. If we had tools that helped address some of GameSalad's weaknesses - like attribute management, project merging and actor layout and positioning - and those tools were openly and actively promoted by GameSalad it would take some of the pressure off them and make the system more useable for everyone.
Secondly, why are three letters of Unity starred out? Joke by Hopscotch or actual removal?
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
@Armelline it is the system when I quoted him it did the same thing so I typed them back in.
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
That can't be true... (Not calling you a liar, expressing disbelief in general not at you :P)
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
@Hopscotch nailed it … We need to come out of the dark ages, not further into it!
Unity wouldn't of had letters taken out, there has just been times when there were people who didn't like competitors engines being mentioned
Hi BC, I don't think it's just the mention of other engines as such, it's been those times when people have wanted comparisons between GSC and a competitor's engine who have hidden agendas, to discredit GSC perhaps, or start a "flame war", etc; although not all of them, I'm sure...
So understandable some of those type of threads have been closed in the past -
Man goes into a Ford car dealership.
"Hello sir, how may I help you?"
"I'd like to buy a Citroen Picasso please."
"But this is a Ford dealership."
"I know. Let's talk about the Picasso and more importably compare it with a Ford Focus"
"OK, if you must..."
"Yes, and afterwards, I'd like to stand just here in this Ford dealership and shout at any of your customers past, present and future how much better the Citroen cars are compared with those made by Ford; and ask them to leave here and follow me to the Citroen dealership; and it's my right that you let me do that; and I'll be really upset if you tell me to shut up and you have no right to be upset by any of my behaviour and...."
You get the idea....
""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps
That is a true statement, but Gamesalald is in no way a competitor engine with Unity...lol
I think most of us have worked with both, but the speed to build with GS is just insanely fast and easy!
I think we should have a section for the "GS Vetted" Third party sites to be able to display their GS goodness, and as for @Armelline and any one person willing to help GS developers by giving out free templates to learn from, they should not be beat up in the least.
I hate to say it, but the worst thing here no one for the GS Management has made any comments or even displayed any support for either the mod or the developers.... and please do not take that as a them against us deal...
I really do miss the old SSS these days!
Wboko