Just to chime in; The one thing I do think Pro users should be allowed for versatility is export to xcode.. Or even export to a .lua file temporarily untill we are moved to the new engine....
I mean my pro account is almost abut to expire (Few months left) and when I purchased it, With the direction at that time I would have expected the lua-free engine to be out before then. But - I think it was just announced a bit pre-maturely.. thats all
But if you look at what the GS team HAVE done for us with a team of just 6 engineers; Windows support - Perfectly working, A nice lua free engine in the works, And of course al these new devices are supported.
Cut the guys some slack, Constructive criticism is Brilliant! - But some of the comments are aggressive - thats not on.
Give up on xcode export. It's most likely not happening... ever. It goes against the whole GS business model. In my opinion, silly. But hey, I'm just a (paying) user.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
edited March 2013
@depressedpanda I'm not so sure how accurate the never gonna happen is. It was initially in the plans at the begining of GameSalad. I think once the complexities of the new engine are worked out we will see a lot more flexibility with GameSalad as a whole. It's just gonna take time and impatient inexperienced people/kids who are looking for anything to blame thier own failures on besides themselves to back off and let GS do thier thing.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
edited March 2013
@tenrdrmer as a paying customer it's their job to satisfy me.
No it actually isn't thier Job to do anything for you but provide the service you paid for which they have done. If you prematurely bought a yearly subscription based on thier plans vs what they where able to provide you at that point in time then you made a mistake and hopefully you learn from that.
GameSalad job is to make money and do thier best to provide a product that satisfies the majority of thier customers. They are actually doing that quite well and then continually working to improve to satisfy even more.
Regardless of what your being taught in school at the end of the day the customer is not always right and its not just about you. It's about what's best for the company as a whole. And balancing that with where customers would to see improvements.
@socks no one ever said all the points mentioned are complete BS. I even agree with a few if them. But surely even you can understand we are so sick and tired of a handful of the same users over and over and over bashing GameSalad and going on about why stencyl or corona are so much better to use. If that's the case then why are they here? Because the fact is at the end if the day GameSalad is the best that's available to them because they don't understand how to use the others. I know I certainly don't. I can accept that limitation often and in turn accept whatever limitations GameSalad drops in my lap. I'm the reason my games can't have facebook intergration and I'm the reason my games have a loading wheel in between scenes.its not gamesalads fault. I was aware of all of those things prior to my first ever purchase of $100 per year for what people now get free. They also didn't stop my upgrade to pro when the price came down from $2000 to $500. I made that choice for myself. GameSalad surely didn't. These guys don't sit around all day twiddling thier thumbs. They have a lot on thier plates. Give them a freaking break for crying out loud.
I find it difficult to "cut them a break" because they haven't met my expectations. Remember when they said the new engine was projected for the summer of 2012? Yeah, that didn't happen. Almost a year later and there doesn't seem to be anything new with the engine.
@tendrmer the end goal is the satisfy the consumer. Look at any large business, and it's focused on the consumer. It's not I have a service, and others will pay for it or not. It should be I have a service, what can I do to make it valuable enough to others. So the end goal is definitely to satisfy me.
One of the things that alarms me is that GameSalad has a very negative forum. There is a lot of bashing/insulting others, and it's basically the GS fanboys vs the GS regulars. So people's perspectives are so tainted that they rush to defend GameSalad after every negative comment. I am part of a variety of forums, and the GS one is one of the worst. While there is a lot of helpful things about the forum, there is always people insulting one another..
One of the things that alarms me is that GameSalad has a very negative forum. There is a lot of bashing/insulting others, and it's basically the GS fanboys vs the GS regulars. So people's perspectives are so tainted that they rush to defend GameSalad after every negative comment. I am part of a variety of forums, and the GS one is one of the worst. While there is a lot of helpful things about the forum, there is always people insulting one another..
Yea, you're original post was totally legit and this topic is totally derailed. The Unity forums are far and away more helpful than here, which is interesting considering the vastness of complexity and steepness of learning curve(meaning questions involve deep knowledge of syntax) that Unity has compared to Gamesalad.
I've literally had 0 posts not been answered by an awesome forum member over there. Half the posts on here are flame wars. People are obviously upset. If you are upset, leave. You'll probably find a pot of gold under another rainbow somewhere...
@socks no one ever said all the points mentioned are complete BS. I even agree with a few if them.
Agreed, no one is saying all his points are BS, I personally don't agree with them all (although I do agree with a few), but my point was less about the pros and cons of any particular argument and more about letting people voice their frustrations free from personal attack. I've got no issue with robust debate, I just feel it doesn't need to get personal, by all means take the guy's argument apart brick by brick, point out the errors in his thinking, point out that Stencyl doesn't do X, Y and Z and so on, but I just feel that when it drifts towards personal attacks it can get pointlessly nasty - and it doesn't serve any purpose besides generating animosity.
But surely even you can understand we are so sick and tired of a handful of the same users over and over and over bashing GameSalad and going on about why stencyl or corona are so much better to use. If that's the case then why are they here?
All I can do here is take a leaf out of your book and suggest that if these threads are annoying to some people - (and although they don't annoy me, I can see why others might be irked by this kind of thing) - then 'if that's the case why are they here' - why read through the thread ?
If that's the case then why are they here? Because the fact is at the end if the day GameSalad is the best that's available to them because they don't understand how to use the others.
Agreed.
These guys don't sit around all day twiddling thier thumbs. They have a lot on thier plates. Give them a freaking break for crying out loud.
I'm sure they don't need our sympathy or protection, they are adults, professionals, most of them have beards (even the women), I can't imagine they burst out crying every time someone posts the now weekly 'when-are-we-going-to-get-the-new-engine' post )
Anyhow, while we might agree on the basics here we'll just have to disagree on how certain issues should best be approached, I suppose this is what happens when thousands of differing personalities, upbringings, outlooks and cultures are all thrown together in one place.
While there is a lot of helpful things about the forum, there is always people insulting one another..
I'd say the forum is, generally speaking, pretty friendly and full of very helpful people, there really isn't much in the way of hostilities elsewhere on the forum, it only seems to happen when someone makes a post like the OP here, it seems to bring out a side in people that you don't see elsewhere. But overall I'd say it was a friendly and helpful place.
Well lets be honest now, in my experience GameSalad forums have an incredibly good side when you need a question answered - yes bickering does go on.. And on...
And this should in future be sorted by PM's, So you can go waste time that you could have actually spent doing something productive, (not speaking to anyone specifically, speaking to people that were bickering in general) just take a second to think how "sad" it is; that you need to have a fight on the Internet over an SDK, Which when the purposes of the bickering don't even have any productive outcomes, It's bullsh*t..
Now hasn't this thread gone enough of topic? I think either we have a sous close it, or resolve our petty problems and move on.
IMO from the years yonder (early forums) we been lurking for Xcode export, and I'm hoping with the new engine we might have it.
Paid user or not.. All feed back is good.. So lets keep it rolling
@epicstag I can deal with the crashing by hitting Command-S every 5 minutes or so.
My main problem is that updates take too long
Chakku
SlickZeroHouston, TexasMember, Sous ChefPosts: 2,870
edited March 2013
Hopefully we can get back on track with this thread. @poisenden original post was respectful and he was voicing legitimate concerns he had, being a Pro user of the software.
The personal conflicts should be taken to PM as they have gotten a little harsh from all sides as this goes on. Nothing wrong with stating a problem one has with another member, but this thread is on the verge of being closed because of it.
I suggest we all stop and take a moment to read the TOS again, and think about what it actually says. Any problems anyone has with how GameSalad operates should be communicated to SSS, or to customer service. If you don't hear back in a timely fashion, then try again. Again, @poisenden was respectful, and concise with his concerns in his original post, but others have been projecting, and stating pure conjecture on how GameSalad operates. It's counterproductive. I understand a person may be pissed off, but everything is clearly stated in the TOS, and posting on the forums how the company is somehow ripping you off, or somehow stealing/controlling your game is incorrect, and you should contact support stating your concerns in a professional manner, instead of making a post out of anger.
This thread will stay open for now, unless another Sous deems it necessary to close it.
Precisely. Which is why I don't understand others entertaining the misguided without this consideration. It's step one, yet some are trying to loop around to GO! while blaming rules they don't understand or care to read when things don't go as planned.
I have many issues with GS. But what's the point of stating them all, I want this and I want that, but GS already gives what I need so I am all good. I joined without taking anything seriously but now it's full on seriousness. I have yet to release a game, or yet to go PRO because a few things a stopping me, so when certain features are released I will be PRO in sec.
But the worst thing for me is these forums. I don't want to be entertain with clever remarks, I don't want to be answered with another question for your needs. I just need to know how to do the issue I an having or recommendations to get me on the right path. So I think people who have been here a long time go through the motions of having to anwser to same old questions day after day. So can understand that. But otherwise it's all good and I am just waiting for that title that says "Introducing the new feature that I need".
As a pro member, i have every right to post my gripes with game salad.
@poisenden Yeah, I don't agree with your 'extra' rights as a pro member. I have been unhappy with the recent 'only legit if you're pro' attitude that has come recently, beginning with the pro-only forums and people posting simple things in there, just because they could.
Not saying this should be closed, but please don't think that you're the king because of your pro badge )
@Chakku Logically, pro members are much more important than free members. It's not that were 'better' in any sense, but we are paying while you have a free membership. It's completely fair to give pro members extra 'rights'.
But i do agree that the pro forum is a step at discriminating at non pro users.
Comments
I mean my pro account is almost abut to expire (Few months left) and when I purchased it, With the direction at that time I would have expected the lua-free engine to be out before then. But - I think it was just announced a bit pre-maturely.. thats all
But if you look at what the GS team HAVE done for us with a team of just 6 engineers;
Windows support - Perfectly working, A nice lua free engine in the works, And of course al these new devices are supported.
Cut the guys some slack, Constructive criticism is Brilliant! - But some of the comments are aggressive - thats not on.
Think of all the opportunities if we could export to Xcode! We could add custom code, ads, SDKs, and we could do higher paying client work.
GameSalad job is to make money and do thier best to provide a product that satisfies the majority of thier customers.
They are actually doing that quite well and then continually working to improve to satisfy even more.
Regardless of what your being taught in school at the end of the day the customer is not always right and its not just about you. It's about what's best for the company as a whole. And balancing that with where customers would to see improvements.
@socks no one ever said all the points mentioned are complete BS. I even agree with a few if them. But surely even you can understand we are so sick and tired of a handful of the same users over and over and over bashing GameSalad and going on about why stencyl or corona are so much better to use. If that's the case then why are they here? Because the fact is at the end if the day GameSalad is the best that's available to them because they don't understand how to use the others. I know I certainly don't. I can accept that limitation often and in turn accept whatever limitations GameSalad drops in my lap. I'm the reason my games can't have facebook intergration and I'm the reason my games have a loading wheel in between scenes.its not gamesalads fault. I was aware of all of those things prior to my first ever purchase of $100 per year for what people now get free. They also didn't stop my upgrade to pro when the price came down from $2000 to $500. I made that choice for myself. GameSalad surely didn't. These guys don't sit around all day twiddling thier thumbs. They have a lot on thier plates. Give them a freaking break for crying out loud.
@tendrmer the end goal is the satisfy the consumer. Look at any large business, and it's focused on the consumer. It's not I have a service, and others will pay for it or not. It should be I have a service, what can I do to make it valuable enough to others. So the end goal is definitely to satisfy me.
One of the things that alarms me is that GameSalad has a very negative forum. There is a lot of bashing/insulting others, and it's basically the GS fanboys vs the GS regulars. So people's perspectives are so tainted that they rush to defend GameSalad after every negative comment. I am part of a variety of forums, and the GS one is one of the worst. While there is a lot of helpful things about the forum, there is always people insulting one another..
I've literally had 0 posts not been answered by an awesome forum member over there. Half the posts on here are flame wars. People are obviously upset. If you are upset, leave. You'll probably find a pot of gold under another rainbow somewhere...
Anyhow, while we might agree on the basics here we'll just have to disagree on how certain issues should best be approached, I suppose this is what happens when thousands of differing personalities, upbringings, outlooks and cultures are all thrown together in one place.
And this should in future be sorted by PM's, So you can go waste time that you could have actually spent doing something productive, (not speaking to anyone specifically, speaking to people that were bickering in general) just take a second to think how "sad" it is; that you need to have a fight on the Internet over an SDK, Which when the purposes of the bickering don't even have any productive outcomes, It's bullsh*t..
Now hasn't this thread gone enough of topic? I think either we have a sous close it, or resolve our petty problems and move on.
IMO from the years yonder (early forums) we been lurking for Xcode export, and I'm hoping with the new engine we might have it.
Paid user or not.. All feed back is good.. So lets keep it rolling
I can deal with the crashing by hitting Command-S every 5 minutes or so.
My main problem is that updates take too long
Chakku
The personal conflicts should be taken to PM as they have gotten a little harsh from all sides as this goes on. Nothing wrong with stating a problem one has with another member, but this thread is on the verge of being closed because of it.
I suggest we all stop and take a moment to read the TOS again, and think about what it actually says. Any problems anyone has with how GameSalad operates should be communicated to SSS, or to customer service. If you don't hear back in a timely fashion, then try again. Again, @poisenden was respectful, and concise with his concerns in his original post, but others have been projecting, and stating pure conjecture on how GameSalad operates. It's counterproductive. I understand a person may be pissed off, but everything is clearly stated in the TOS, and posting on the forums how the company is somehow ripping you off, or somehow stealing/controlling your game is incorrect, and you should contact support stating your concerns in a professional manner, instead of making a post out of anger.
This thread will stay open for now, unless another Sous deems it necessary to close it.
Precisely. Which is why I don't understand others entertaining the misguided without this consideration. It's step one, yet some are trying to loop around to GO! while blaming rules they don't understand or care to read when things don't go as planned.
But the worst thing for me is these forums. I don't want to be entertain with clever remarks, I don't want to be answered with another question for your needs. I just need to know how to do the issue I an having or recommendations to get me on the right path. So I think people who have been here a long time go through the motions of having to anwser to same old questions day after day. So can understand that. But otherwise it's all good and I am just waiting for that title that says "Introducing the new feature that I need".
Elfizm
Usually I like those jokes, but that's just me :P
( @Socks cracks me up at times
However, I do agree with you on going pro once my feature comes
Chakku
Ah, but my head won't get wet! I have a crown, you see...
Chakku
EDIT: Somebody edited my post and changed 'crown' into 'hat'... thought I wouldn't notice, eh?
Also, this thread really doesn't need to be closed; let's just get back to the original topic.
- Thomas
Yeah, I don't agree with your 'extra' rights as a pro member. I have been unhappy with the recent 'only legit if you're pro' attitude that has come recently, beginning with the pro-only forums and people posting simple things in there, just because they could.
Not saying this should be closed, but please don't think that you're the king because of your pro badge
Chakku
But i do agree that the pro forum is a step at discriminating at non pro users.