As been said countless times, $300 is a very small investment to be in business. Most types of ventures cost tens of thousands to start. @mr rinoy you learned a valuable lesson, never do anything on speculation when in business. Risk is part of doing business get used to it.
@FryingBaconStudios I'm saying it is bad business. It is something that as a business, GameSalad should have mentioned when they announced Lau Free. I doubt I'm the only customer that is in this situation either. Also, maybe you didn't read my whole post. A $100 subscription would allow users to make quality games that would build GameSalad's reputation. Personally, I would not pay $300 for Pro even with Lau Free. And it seems to me that GameSalad is going to not serve my purposes anymore if they aren't going to update the Basic publishing system in the future. It seems to me as though it is only a matter of time before I am forced into finding an alternate way to make games. For example, Stencyl is code free and half the price with many features GameSalad doesn't have. GameSalad is getting competition and if they want to stay on the top of the market, they need to stay competitive.
I was actually a little surprised to hear about the engine being pro-only as well, as every time the question was asked, users were assured that the new engine would be for everyone. But really, that doesn't concern me personally, and I can understand why GS wants to reap some cash from it (though, I imagine they're going to HATE maintaining the old system for free users).
@Mr.Rinoy I can see why you're frustrated, but if your game isn't worth $300, then I don't see what this rant is about. $300 is not an astronomical amount, and your comparison with Stencyl is inaccurate. Without going into comparision of features, Stencyl is only $150 if you buy the iOS only. They've stated on their forums that HTML5 and Android publishing would be an additional subscription. Thus, the two products will most likely be very similar in pricing.
@fryingbaconstudios makes a very valid point. Be very wary of working on projects based on speculation. I don't plan to adjust my schedule even with this new information, as I know the timeline continually changes. You could compare this roadmap with the one given us in 2011 and find they look strikingly similar. Just make your games with the tools you have available now, and if that means switching, by all means, go learn an alternative.
@LiquidGameworks Thank you, that is some good advice. I'm confident my new game will make over $300, but it does mean that to publish, $300 just vanished from my wallet. While in the scope of game development that is not a lot of money, it is still a significant enough amount to cause agitation. Especially when as you said, GS had stated that the engine would be available for everyone.
Individuals who decide to make games for profit need to be educated in basic business principles as well as game design. I know many people on here have dreams of hitting it big and I expect most of them couldn't handle it as running a business is harder than developing games. As an entrepreneur who has had several successful ventures, as well as a few failures, I can tell you that running a company takes more than a game and a name. It takes knowledge and leadership experience to run a company and some street smarts to navigate. As my father, who is a very successful business man used to advice me, "every lesson has a price, failures that cost you money are the price of the education and when it cost you money, you're sure to not do that again."
It's an exciting time to be a gamesalad user! I am really looking forward to everything on the roadmap. I think having the native engine as a pro feature is a fair move. It's a great incentive to go pro. Ive been a pro member for a while and I believe it is a worthwhile investment! And with all these new features coming, even more so.
Looks great! I have no problem with paying for an improved "Pro version". However, I would really like to know this: if I sink months into building a game using the free version now, will my engine transfer over to the new Pro version at all? Will it convert old GameSalad files?
Sorry if this was addressed. Didn't see it. Thanks
However, I would really like to know this: if I sink months into building a game using the free version now, will my engine transfer over to the new Pro version at all? Will it convert old GameSalad files?
ill buy pro anyways so i dont really see whats the problem just make a simple game with the basic version if you get enough money for pro buy it. its super worth it.
@Mr.Rinoy - If you've spent over a year making this game, wouldn't that time alone be well worth over $300 for just seeing that it gets published? I myself have been Pro for over a year and am yet to release any of my games.
I do it for fun, cash is a bonus. A hopeful bonus lol.
That's so awesome!!! I think the time updating to PRO is coming very soon for me! Great of you @GS. So nice features coming Now it's really nice to develop with GameSalad with all these features coming. --- Benjamin
anyway I have no illusions with multiplayer, I remember now over one year old also appeared roadmap "multiplayer" and has been a long time and do not have it, so I imagine it will take years see GS multiplayer system. I do not understand is if they have integrated twitter because now they have a very similar to Facebook APIs in iOS 6 does not integrate facebook quickly. I do not understand why we have to wait for the new interface for this .... the roadmap I love but when will be finished? In four years? Meanwhile, monetization options, if they are equal to PlayHaven prefer to have nothing, is disappointing and ridiculous not to see each day what they are doing with PlayHaven your games, is very unprofessional all this, we need to see daily reports I do not understand because I can not login! into PlayHaven and watch my sales .... I have said before very unprofessional .... @SaladStraightShooter
We remain the only engine on the market that allows you to use - and publish - for free.
If this is a feature that sets you apart from your competitors, why phase it out?
Personally, I think there should just be one version of GameSalad... and it should be $99. Although, that debate has been done before. If it's basically going to be $299 or nothing, then that might send more customers to your competition.
What if it was...
Mac/iOS... $99 Android... $99 Windows 8... $99 HTML5 with proper exporting!... $99 Full suite... $299
@Adventuregoat - there should be some changes in logic to account for the speed - for example, you may have stacked music higher in your logic to trigger earlier due to the slow stacking of LUA. So in that case an adjustment would need to be made. But it's unlikely to be drastic. .
Wonderful!! Really looking forward to the new and updated tools!
All sounds great and very exciting .... BUT seriously, SORT OUT THE LOGIN ISSUES ... It's beyond pathetic now and I simply do not come to the forums now through the frustration it causes and the want to hack away at myself with a rusty fork!
@Photics - it's not being phased out. It will remain available. Just not with the updated engine.
@SaladStraightShooter If the old engine will no longer be updated, then as apple releases new devices, wouldn't that essentially phase it out? Also, when joints are released, will they not be available for the basic members?
We remain the only engine on the market that allows you to use - and publish - for free.
If this is a feature that sets you apart from your competitors, why phase it out?
Personally, I think there should just be one version of GameSalad... and it should be $99. Although, that debate has been done before. If it's basically going to be $299 or nothing, then that might send more customers to your competition.
What if it was...
Mac/iOS... $99 Android... $99 Windows 8... $99 HTML5 with proper exporting!... $99 Full suite... $299
...and free iOS publishing goes away?
This is sort of what I was trying to say. I think maybe SaladStraightShooter didn't quite understand me. I don't think GS should give away anything for free. I do however think there should be a price range based on features so that people who want the new engine but not the other features don't have to pay for something they aren't interested in. The new engine did have a lot of time devoted to it and it will also add new features. So, to adjust Photics' list a bit:
Mac/iOS without Lau... Free or $25 Mac/iOS... $99 Android without Lau... $25 Windows 8...$99 HTML5 on GS arcade only... Free HTML5 with exporting... $50
Extra Features: GameCenter: $20 iAd: $20 External Links: $15 Twitter: $20 Monetization: $25 Priority Tech Support: $3 or $5 per support request
Full Suite Package: $299 (5 free support requests) $65-$75 in savings for Full Suite
Really cool news and love the features that are coming. Now that I have a rough guess on when things are being released I feel it's a lot easier creating games because you know what is coming and can prepare for it. So instead of making everything in the one scene It can be spread out a bit. Makes my life easier. Good job.
However I couldnt help but notice the large amount of people complaining about the new engine being pro only. Like many people have said before you spend money to gain money. If $299 is too much for you then you should be asking your self are you really serious about app delevopment. Yes there are situations in which people don't have money which is why you can use the free engine.
For example, you can spend $299 to get an iPhone 5 or you can get the first iPhone for free. Either way you still are getting something an iphone, you just have to pay for better features. It happens with everything. GS a business not a charity in my eyes and i respect that.
Again, good work with the engine and upcoming features. Can't wait
In regards to the engine - it's likely that changes will be made to account for new operating systems... as I said, sustaining. Not left to rot. Will you be limited on newer devices? Perhaps... but this is speculative at this point as none of this has happened yet.
@SaladStraightShooter That's good to hear about the old engine being sustained. I don't like it, but I guest I will have to accept it. Also, nice metaphor. I can see your old English teachers smiling.
Also, this is a little off topic, but while you are reading this post anyways, the @something doesn't seem to work for my username because of the period? Is there any way that it could be fixed? And if not, could you remove the period?
and i'm invisible to SSS as usual, again, pls include me in the beta test. make a friend,
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
@ultima I'm sure he saw your request though I don't believe he gets to set the list of testers himself. QA ussually picks who gets those builds if have understood past history of Pre-release testing. If they do decide to take applications for the Pre-release I would expect they will post a thread about it. Kinda like when they took applications and suggestions for line cooks and sous chefs.
Very exciting stuff, Steve! Glad to see you guys are taking community feedback seriously and adjusting the roadmap accordingly. Although, I have to say I was very disappointed that PlayHaven Reporting wasn't near the top of the list.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You can't expect a large amount of paying (or potential paying) customers to use an ad partner like PlayHaven without a good daily reporting system. As others have pointed out in the past, why not take advantage of PlayHaven's own reporting system - that way no one has to re-invent the wheel. We've all seen what happens when not enough people use an ad partner...
That is not to say that hardly anyone is using PlayHaven, this is not true either. I myself have implemented it into one of our apps. The problem I have with that is I released the app in late September (shameless plug for iPuzzler and iPuzzler HD), but won't know how it has preformed with PlayHaven ads enabled until December! At what point in time when adding support for the PlayHaven network was discussed did someone say "Hey, this reporting system (or the lack thereof) sounds good"?
Anyway, I guess all I can do is hope it's coming very soon. Otherwise, I'm very excited about the new engine, and would love to be signed up for the first release!
All sounds great and very exciting .... BUT seriously, SORT OUT THE LOGIN ISSUES ... It's beyond pathetic now and I simply do not come to the forums now through the frustration it causes and the want to hack away at myself with a rusty fork!
This. I've had to log in four times just to reply to this.
I knew that they were working on something like a dashboard to able us to see the PlayHaven reports every day, but I don't think any announcements here...uff PH is very important for us and it would be nice to have a system dashboard like iAd; but I've only read that we will can use PlayHaven for Android soon.
@saladstraightshooter On the contrary these log in issues seem to have final fixed the "Save my sign in" thing, Im running safari on my mac and like never before I've been logged in for 3 weeks now!
Comments
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
I'm saying it is bad business. It is something that as a business, GameSalad should have mentioned when they announced Lau Free. I doubt I'm the only customer that is in this situation either. Also, maybe you didn't read my whole post. A $100 subscription would allow users to make quality games that would build GameSalad's reputation. Personally, I would not pay $300 for Pro even with Lau Free. And it seems to me that GameSalad is going to not serve my purposes anymore if they aren't going to update the Basic publishing system in the future. It seems to me as though it is only a matter of time before I am forced into finding an alternate way to make games. For example, Stencyl is code free and half the price with many features GameSalad doesn't have. GameSalad is getting competition and if they want to stay on the top of the market, they need to stay competitive.
@Mr.Rinoy I can see why you're frustrated, but if your game isn't worth $300, then I don't see what this rant is about. $300 is not an astronomical amount, and your comparison with Stencyl is inaccurate. Without going into comparision of features, Stencyl is only $150 if you buy the iOS only. They've stated on their forums that HTML5 and Android publishing would be an additional subscription. Thus, the two products will most likely be very similar in pricing.
@fryingbaconstudios makes a very valid point. Be very wary of working on projects based on speculation. I don't plan to adjust my schedule even with this new information, as I know the timeline continually changes. You could compare this roadmap with the one given us in 2011 and find they look strikingly similar. Just make your games with the tools you have available now, and if that means switching, by all means, go learn an alternative.
Thank you, that is some good advice. I'm confident my new game will make over $300, but it does mean that to publish, $300 just vanished from my wallet. While in the scope of game development that is not a lot of money, it is still a significant enough amount to cause agitation. Especially when as you said, GS had stated that the engine would be available for everyone.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
Keep it up gamesalad!
Sorry if this was addressed. Didn't see it.
iOS Apps/Games: Factoids | SkyGunner | TriSideX
I do it for fun, cash is a bonus. A hopeful bonus lol.
Now it's really nice to develop with GameSalad with all these features coming.
---
Benjamin
@SaladStraightShooter
Personally, I think there should just be one version of GameSalad... and it should be $99. Although, that debate has been done before. If it's basically going to be $299 or nothing, then that might send more customers to your competition.
What if it was...
Mac/iOS... $99
Android... $99
Windows 8... $99
HTML5 with proper exporting!... $99
Full suite... $299
...and free iOS publishing goes away?
If the old engine will no longer be updated, then as apple releases new devices, wouldn't that essentially phase it out? Also, when joints are released, will they not be available for the basic members? This is sort of what I was trying to say. I think maybe SaladStraightShooter didn't quite understand me. I don't think GS should give away anything for free. I do however think there should be a price range based on features so that people who want the new engine but not the other features don't have to pay for something they aren't interested in. The new engine did have a lot of time devoted to it and it will also add new features. So, to adjust Photics' list a bit:
Mac/iOS without Lau... Free or $25
Mac/iOS... $99
Android without Lau... $25
Windows 8...$99
HTML5 on GS arcade only... Free
HTML5 with exporting... $50
Extra Features:
GameCenter: $20
iAd: $20
External Links: $15
Twitter: $20
Monetization: $25
Priority Tech Support: $3 or $5 per support request
Full Suite Package: $299 (5 free support requests) $65-$75 in savings for Full Suite
However I couldnt help but notice the large amount of people complaining about the new engine being pro only. Like many people have said before you spend money to gain money. If $299 is too much for you then you should be asking your self are you really serious about app delevopment. Yes there are situations in which people don't have money which is why you can use the free engine.
For example, you can spend $299 to get an iPhone 5 or you can get the first iPhone for free. Either way you still are getting something an iphone, you just have to pay for better features. It happens with everything. GS a business not a charity in my eyes and i respect that.
Again, good work with the engine and upcoming features. Can't wait
Cheers
That's good to hear about the old engine being sustained. I don't like it, but I guest I will have to accept it. Also, nice metaphor. I can see your old English teachers smiling.
Also, this is a little off topic, but while you are reading this post anyways, the @something doesn't seem to work for my username because of the period? Is there any way that it could be fixed? And if not, could you remove the period?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You can't expect a large amount of paying (or potential paying) customers to use an ad partner like PlayHaven without a good daily reporting system. As others have pointed out in the past, why not take advantage of PlayHaven's own reporting system - that way no one has to re-invent the wheel. We've all seen what happens when not enough people use an ad partner...
That is not to say that hardly anyone is using PlayHaven, this is not true either. I myself have implemented it into one of our apps. The problem I have with that is I released the app in late September (shameless plug for iPuzzler and iPuzzler HD), but won't know how it has preformed with PlayHaven ads enabled until December! At what point in time when adding support for the PlayHaven network was discussed did someone say "Hey, this reporting system (or the lack thereof) sounds good"?
Anyway, I guess all I can do is hope it's coming very soon. Otherwise, I'm very excited about the new engine, and would love to be signed up for the first release!
- Alex
The system playhaven is very unprofessional....
PH is very important for us and it would be nice to have a system dashboard like iAd; but I've only read that we will can use PlayHaven for Android soon.
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On the contrary these log in issues seem to have final fixed the "Save my sign in" thing, Im running safari on my mac and like never before I've been logged in for 3 weeks now!