Original Old Discussion Thread • Think Outside The Box 3 •

StormyStudio · June 2011

'THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX 3'

Official contest web page to go along with the main TOTB3 thread:
www.stormystudio.com/totb3.html
To start on Saturday the 18th of June (Theme announced on day 1)

• There will be a theme for the competition which games have to be loosely based around
• The theme will be given at the start of the contest

Judges
T-shirt Booth,
Utopian Games (Darren)
Tenrdrmer
ButterBean
Gyroscope
Magic101hi
Quantum Sheep
JohnMulcahy
JohnPapiomitis
SciTunes

The long list of stellar prizes and the contest rules are available on www.stormystudio.com/totb3.html

Think that's the lot so far...

Not long now... :-P

UtopianGames · June 2011

Sounds great, i would be happy to vote if it helps.

Darren.

tenrdrmer · June 2011

I think a select few judges would be the best idea with preset criteria for judging.

Obviously judges should not be allowed to enter.

I could also throw in all of my menu templates to a winner if you'd like.

I prob wont have time to enter. but would be glad to judge if the community would like.

Aaron

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osucowboy18 · June 2011

Sounds great Stormy

Hopefully I will be able to participate in this one.

- Alex
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Jamwithno · June 2011

Sounds like it will be fun I hope to compet this time because I could not last time.

IsabelleK · June 2011

Finally

I don't want to be a judge, I want to win :P

cbt · June 2011

Hi stormystudio, really glad to see you here again! (I don't know if you were around or not, I wasn't

)

As you may remember, I was desperately looking for a "game-challenge" when you were preparing to do the first one

But, the things did NOT turned out to be how I hoped.

First of all, there should definitely be a team of judges. I don't know who they should be, but, there really should be one. Because the contest is named "Think Outside The Box". But, as far as I've seen when the voting begins, nobody even cares about "Thinking Outside The Box". It's all art they care. No one thinks how hard would it be to do it with GS. But as the title states, we should have judged by the "smartness" or "uniqueness" of the code (Or behaviors, whatever..

) and gameplay. Or simply change the title.

All beloved GS members, please don't think I'm an a**hole, but I really think I "think" ed more "Outside The Box" than any contestants did for the past 2 competition. I can challenge most of the members to do the game I sent to the contest, really, it is way hard to think of a way to what I did than to think of a simple shoot or jump rules. (At least what "Riffel" did was thinking outside the box. The "clay" art was inspiring.) But when voting gets public, it is the simple things that earns the love, not "hard/smart/came outside the box" work.

Again, don't think me like a prig, I never said anything to anyone until this day. And today I have to be honest because I think in this competition, everybody should be happy. So I spell everything out I know/think.

So, I think, there should be judges. Judges that who really knows about both, games and especially GS. (because if someone menages to do something like "Epic Citadel", he should win instantly even if it's not a game, just because making something like that in GS

) And should they choose to accept it QS, TSB, FMG would be just some of the perfect judges I think.

No matter what, thanks for taking time to do something like this stormystudio. This really is a great way to have some fun

scitunes · June 2011

I think it would be wise to create a rubric. Each criterion would have a 1-5 score associated with it and the entry with the highest point total wins. Take all the judges' rubrics and average them. Post the criteria when the topic is announced so that everyone is on the same page.

Maybe

originality
game-play
art
theme
polish
re-playability
"personality"

We could even have people suggest the criteria ahead of time and let the community vote on the criteria. You could take the top 5 and use that as the rubric.

I think this, along with a panel of official judges, will help avoid the issues that came up last time.

jobonoobdude · June 2011

YES!!!!!!!!!

Finally a voice cries out in the desert!! I totally agree! The last TOTB competition wasn't really judged on originality, it was judged by who had pretty artwork. And on top of that like 4 people had late entries, including okami! (or how ever you spell it) I really hope this one isn't squed like the last one was (again no offense stormy)

So anyway, yes, awesome, go for it, I will enter for sure!

may the best man win!

cbt · June 2011

scitunes said:
I think it would be wise to create a rubric. Each criterion would have a 1-5 score associated with it and the entry with the highest point total wins. Take all the judges' rubrics and average them. Post the criteria when the topic is announced so that everyone is on the same page.

Maybe

originality
game-play
art
theme
polish
re-playability
"personality"

We could even have people suggest the criteria ahead of time and let the community vote on the criteria. You could take the top 5 and use that as the rubric.

I think this, along with a panel of official judges, will help avoid the issues that came up last time.

Great idea I say. But on a side-note, I'm skeptical about "art". All of us here can make games, but not all of us can make art. It is in profession of other tools than GS. (And yeah, I'm saying that because I'm miserable when it comes to art!

)

tenrdrmer · June 2011

Art should have some say of your final score but it should not be so much that someone can win on art alone. Its an important part of GameDesign so it should not be ignored. But for this contest it should also be minimal. IMO

scitunes · June 2011

I don't see how you can ignore art. If this is the weirdest code contest then maybe, but if you totally take art out then what are you left with? Really just gameplay. Some games can make it on gameplay alone with virtually no art (I got really hooked on spike dislike for awhile). But usually the personality, feel,the ability to draw a player in, replayability (to some degree), and the overall fun are greatly influenced by the art. If one person makes a really fun game with horrible art then I guess they shouldn't be penalized. But another person might make a game in which the art enhances the fun - for them the art should help their score. So I don't exactly know what I am saying as far as the rubric goes. Maybe there needs to be an "x-factor" category instead of art. The non-artist coders could get "x-factor" points for extra creative code while the artists could get "x-factor" points for their art.

cbt · June 2011

scitunes said:
I don't see how you can ignore art. If this is the weirdest code contest then maybe, but if you totally take art out then what are you left with? Really just gameplay. Some games can make it on gameplay alone with virtually no art (I got really hooked on spike dislike for awhile). But usually the personality, feel,the ability to draw a player in, replayability (to some degree), and the overall fun are greatly influenced by the art. If one person makes a really fun game with horrible art then I guess they shouldn't be penalized. But another person might make a game in which the art enhances the fun - for them the art should help their score. So I don't exactly know what I am saying as far as the rubric goes. Maybe there needs to be an "x-factor" category instead of art. The non-artist coders could get "x-factor" points for extra creative code while the artists could get "x-factor" points for their art.

Well, to be clear, I totally agree art should be a criteria. I'm just saying I'm just unhappy about it.

And I agree 100% what you just said. So why I'm unhappy?

Art is vital, yes. But, I have no art skills. When I'm making a game, I construct all the elements that are included in other criterias you mentioned except art. Then I hire an artist, and tell him how I want my graphics, and he just does what I say. So, in conclusion, I made a game with cool art. But, in this situation, all "outside" help is prohibited. So, even though I'm a great game-maker (completely being hypothetical), I may not win.

But, because art is... well.. art, I think it should be included. Because it takes creativity, hard-work etc. etc. It should be awarded even though some of us can't even compete in that category. IF ONLY we have 9-10 criteria AT LEAST. Anyone should be able to cover up that gap with scoring higher in other things.

StormyStudio · June 2011

Great replies... cheers everyone..... still need input on when people want it to start...

TOTB2...the results.. lets clear it up and forget about it
People at the time voiced opinions about entries being allowed in late (my bad... I wanted the contest to be relaxed and having lots of entries and saw no harm in allowing two users who had already made games for it a little extra time to get round to submit it to the contest... this time I will be like some sort of bad ass strict teacher I promise.

Just to clear it up once and for all 'Okimoki' who won TOTB2 got his entry in on time... he actually got it in first (a day early), he won fair and square. People may have been swayed by his lush graphics, perfected design, excellent polish, and working finished game mechanic, but his game was certainly unique it had friggin Robot Nazi Penguins, a flying robot collects powers ups with an endless runner style gameplay (maybe not unique compared to any game ever, but the only game like that I've seen made with GameSalad). I let two users submit their games after the deadline (I promise it won't happen this time.. I myself will be like a Robot Nazi penguin)...

JUDGING CRITERIA
Thanks for the input on this, I appreciate some are better at coding compared to art production or graphics. But I still feel people will be judged on art as well though with more points available for unique gameplay design). I believe you can 'think outside the box' by using creative art ideas. E.g. I would say it is thinking outside the box to create a paper toss style game but change it so you are throwing zombie heads into a bowl of acid.

Judges
The judges need to be GS users who have a superb track record at making their own games, and are respected in the forum. They need to understand good game design, know lots about games both old and new (Space Invaders to Modern Warfare 3) and appreciate what takes a lot of effort to achieve in GameSalad using our toolset.

- Thanks to T-shirt for saying yes to being a judge
- And to Darren 'Utopian Games' for offering up his judging services (definitely accepted, also feel free to offer up a prize :-).

WHEN DO YOU WANT IT TO START
To start on either, Saturday the 11th of June, Saturday the 18th of June or Saturday the 25th...

osucowboy18 · June 2011

stormystudio said:
WHEN DO YOU WANT IT TO START
To start on either, Saturday the 11th of June, Saturday the 18th of June or Saturday the 25th...

The sooner the better

I say start the 11th

- Alex
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old_kipper · June 2011

Thanks for organising this. 11th of June but I am in on any date you go for.

cheers kipper.

gyroscope · June 2011

Ditto, as kipper says. Any chance of making it a four week contest or would that not be on?

gyroscope · June 2011

Another thought; would it be best if the judges judged "blind", i.e no game creator name given with the games they're to judge?

DreamLab · June 2011

gyroscope said:
Another thought; would it be best if the judges judged "blind", i.e no game creator name given with the games they're to judge?

thats a great idea

StormyStudio · June 2011

gyroscope said:
Another thought; would it be best if the judges judged "blind", i.e no game creator name given with the games they're to judge?

Would be nice, but I like the idea of people being able to post a thread about the game as its being created. As it makes for some interesting reading on game design etc etc...

and the judges would see these...

(Gyro... are you taking part? ... otherwise fancy being a judge?)

old_kipper · June 2011

Wouldn't a blind judging cut out the build threads? I don't mind to much. It's just I enjoyed looking through them and watching progress last time.

beaten to it again...

perhaps a new temporary second id for the comp members would cover the not knowing complication?

StormyStudio · June 2011

Also Gyro... why 4 weeks..? (not knocking it...I'm happy to go with what the people want...some people before said they wanted it to be a 48 hours contest... I like the idea of seeing some great games so the longer its on the better the games can look both in game design and visual and audio polish)

DreamLab · June 2011

I think Tenrdrmer should be a judge as well. Maybe a couple more. We need a lot of judges so its not possibly a biased contest.

StormyStudio · June 2011

DreamLab said:
I think Tenrdrmer should be a judge as well. Maybe a couple more. We need a lot of judges so its not possibly a biased contest.

Cool... yep... sorry Tenrdrmer missed your offer earlier... offer to be a judge accepted... and also your offer of a couple of menu templates... many thanks...

I've started making a list for judges and prizes...

Riffel · June 2011

I love support the contest.
From my first win with Clay Moon I received just the T-shirts from T-shirtbooth they are GREAT!!
Wainting video-edit and video-review prizes.

DreamLab · June 2011

So this is going to be a 48 hour thing?

jb15 · June 2011

Newbie to contests--a few questions:

The games have to be developed only during the contest?
The games have to be on the app store?
The games have to be on GS website?
The games have to be done by when (is that the "start" date?)

Sounds like fun.

butterbean · June 2011

I'll definitely be on the panel of judges if needed

Look forward to this!

tenrdrmer · June 2011

jb15 said:
Newbie to contests--a few questions:

The games have to be developed only during the contest?
The games have to be on the app store?
The games have to be on GS website?
The games have to be done by when (is that the "start" date?)

Sounds like fun.

They have to start when the contest starts.

The goal is to make it to the app store but they do not have to be published before the contest is over. If not though you have to have a good video showing the gameplay

Again you can publish it the GS website if you want but it has never been a requirement of the contest before.

The start date looks to be set for june 18th thats when you start your game. the finish date i'm not sure if its set yet but that is when you have to submit your video to the contest thread by. if you miss that date and time your out of the contest.

Of course that is how I understand it all as I am not running it. Stormy will post complete rules and such once he get them all set.

jb15 · June 2011

Thanks tenrdrmer!

StormyStudio · June 2011

Cheers Tenrdrmer... spot on...

Exact rules will be written in a few days...

Here's a early graphic I've just been working on

Also checkout this webpage in the making to backup the official thread that will be on the forum...

www.stormystudio.com/totb3.html

Just trying to make the contest seem more official...I will also work on some medal graphics at some point for the winners of this and previous winners to use in their games/websites if they want to.

(Also Riffel...I owe you a video edit... I promise I've not forgot.. I'll surprise you with it one day soon...)

• Any more prizes?
• I think the contest will stay at 3 weeks in duration... cool?

Original Old Discussion Thread • Think Outside The Box 3 •

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