@Two.E said:
Just leave already if you don't support the move.
The community is the worst part of GS. It just destroy everything.
From making ranting videos about the software and users, to making of constant drama. The assumptions. The shaming of CEO's. Get rid of the forums and solve a lot of problems. (Or get rid of some members )
New CEO, laid out the plans to keep the software lights on. It has to be done to survive. Its the only logical solution. The new move lets current developer continue to support their games or development while focusing on a stable source of revenue.
You don't need to worry dude. I already suspended my membership and shut down my video livestream and pretty much stopped commenting on the forum. I know you don't like me and that's okay. I won't lose any sleep over it trust me lmao.
Maybe someone will take over my spot like I picked up where Tshirtbooth left off. I've already moved on to other things. The last six years were fun and I make many good friends and helped many fulfill their dream of gamemaking. I was a lot of work but I enjoyed it. Now it's time for me to help my son complete his game and with college. Already spending more time at the beach, working on my custom jeep and going out with my wife. I'll probably find a project car and spend more time wrenching, my other hobby. I've been building cars and trucks since I was a teenager.
I'll still be checking in to see what's up but other than that I'm going to devote more time to pure enjoyment.
@Two.E has a point, even if you are not willing to see it. He could possibly make a great CEO -- the job of a CEO is not to pander to ranting requests of users, but to make sure a company has a great product and makes enough money to survive (and hopefully to make a profit). If the situation for the past couple of years is that the hobbyist sector isn't providing the necessary cashflow, but education is, well, then it makes sense to move that way. Yes, this community has provided great support and ideas that have made GS a better product. But if they aren't profitable and go bankrupt, it doesn't matter how good the product was, it will be GONE. Look at some of the most successful companies. Look at Apple. They don't ask their customers what they want. They just deliver a good product that will sell.
Of course, the forum is great and it's an amazing thing that people can express their opinions. Our voices are heard. But you don't need to repeat the same thing again and again ad nauseam. I'm sure Brent Dusing will come back to respond -- but not during the weekend, when he is off. So ranting about him going silent again is only a childish exercise in impatience. No one is expecting you to pretend you are all happy if you aren't. Express your views. But a marker of an adult conversation is that you thoroughly and clearly make your point and then be patient.
Brent Dusing's priorities are solid for the time being, I would say. He highlighted two things: expanding the number of schools using GS and fixing issues. As was pointed out, these are two disconnected efforts and won't affect each other.
Why are they solid? Well, fixing issues is a clear one. And expanding schools is ultra important. It is now June. GS have roughly till the beginning of September to convince schools to come on board. By then, if not earlier, the curriculum will be locked in and tough luck. So, you have June, July, August -- 3 months, which isn't too much.
So, why is that solid? What happens after? If they are successful, they will have stable cash flow and will be able to start hiring more people. Once the bugs are fixed (hopefully soon), the people doing the coding will have their hands free to doing the UI/workflow rewrite. That will make GS easier to use for everyone and it includes some major features we have been asking for (snap to grid etc.). Once that is done, they can focus on brand new features. What will they be? Who knows. But just because their main focus is going to be education (since that's where their funding will come from mostly), doesn't mean that those functions are not going to be helpful to us, or that they will not line up with some of our requests.
If this is all successful and there is stable cash flow, it will likely mean that updates and the quality of updates will far surpass anything in the past. Just remember how it used to be historically. I'm seeing better days ahead. Yes, things can always go wrong, but that's an unnecessary pessimism, which will only creatively push you in a rut and won't help resolve the situation.
This is why stopping feature implementation in the short term is very sensible; nay, necessary.
Asking whether they will be implemented after is somewhat pointless. Brent Dusing is new here. He has to come to grips with the software. He probably doesn't know what will be implemented down the line. When Steve & Steve started Apple in the 1970s, they had no idea there would be an iPhone. But now there is. If Apple went bankrupt, there would be no iPhone. So yes, short term Brent Dusing's plan is what we need.
@pHghost Your essay makes me a bit confused. Comparing Apple to Gamesalad just demonstrates your lack of business knowledge - they are both polar opposites and one of them is a multi-billion dollar company, and a huge rarity in the tech world. The other is a failing platform that has still yet to "get" the value of its community.
The job of a CEO is not to pander to ranting requests of users
Well actually it is. CEOs have a duty to respond to their customers, even during weekends. And especially when it concerns a huge bulk of their paying customers, and long-time customers, posing questions that could seriously jeopardise their current income.
Yes, this community has provided great support and ideas that have made GS a better product. But if they aren't profitable and go bankrupt, it doesn't matter how good the product was, it will be GONE.
The community is providing solutions and suggestions that could turn Gamesalad around. People that have spoken with GS for years, who now feel neglected and are suggesting moving on. It's just unfortunate that community comments fall on deaf ears - the vast majority of people here want to help and are voicing their concerns.
I'm sure Brent Dusing will come back to respond -- but not during the weekend, when he is off. So ranting about him going silent again is only a childish exercise in impatience.
If Brent is unavailable on weekends, then he should designate a community manager to respond to customers over the weekend. This isn't pre-internet community-building now, we live in the 21st century and for better or worse paying customers often want answers 24/7.
But a marker of an adult conversation is that you thoroughly and clearly make your point and then be patient.
Again, and I agree, its incredibly difficult for paying customers to be patient right now when the product they have been paying for doesn't work - flat out. We are essentially wasting our money currently on a service which is defunct. Brent, or whoever else, has not discussed refunds and so the community will continue to repeat the same request for communication.
We were informed very late of the warning to upgrade OS X as well, and so the majority of users are now trapped with the upgrade, and no working Creator. I went out a bought a MacBook Pro on the weekend and it luckily came pre-installed with 10.11.4 so I'm back at work, but not everybody can do that.
These are just my thoughts based on your comments. If Gamesalad doesn't act soon I truly believe a lot of us will head to another platform and leave this one for the children learning to code (Gamesalad's future market).
@pHghost said: @Two.E has a point, even if you are not willing to see it. He could possibly make a great CEO -- the job of a CEO is not to pander to ranting requests of users, but to make sure a company has a great product and makes enough money to survive (and hopefully to make a profit).
Shutting down the community is a ridiculous idea that will remove the most valuable feature of GameSalad. A lot of the complaining may be pointless, but the community adds far more value than the complaints remove. If that's his first idea, I'm very, very glad he isn't CEO.
@Hypnorabbit said:
Comparing Apple to Gamesalad just demonstrates your lack of business knowledge - they are both polar opposites and one of them is a multi-billion dollar company
Then you are completely missing my point. The point was that Apple was once near-bankrupt. What brought it back to life was Steve Jobs coming and streamlining things. Axing a lot of products and focusing on what is sensible. That is hopefully what Brent Dusing will attempt to do. Perhaps not. I have no illusions that GameSalad will rise to the profitability of Apple. That is, of course, not going to happen. But it doesn't need to. What needs to happen is for GameSalad to stand on solid footing, so they can get back to improving their product.
CEOs have a duty to respond to their customers, even during weekends.
No.
And especially when it concerns a huge bulk of their paying customers, and long-time customers, posing questions that could seriously jeopardise their current income.
Those are simply your assumptions. It is quite likely that the few of us here on the Forums are NOT "a huge bulk of their paying customers." Or, if we currently are, it isn't enough to keep the ship afloat. And don't get me wrong, I completely agree with your disappointment of how it currently stands with the state of GameSalad and hope things will change rapidly, but I try to be sensible with expectations and not to see doom around every corner.
The community is providing solutions and suggestions that could turn Gamesalad around.
Solutions that people THINK could turn GameSalad around. That doesn't necessarily mean those people are right. That is what the CEO is probably going to do. Read the comments and make his decisions. Why do you assume that what you write falls on deaf ears? Just because there isn't a response doesn't mean that nobody read what you said and hasn't decided to implement some of it, after deliberation.
the vast majority of people here want to help and are voicing their concerns.
Yes. So do I. But by flooding the Forums with repeated comments and demanding replies, you aren't helping much. Voice your opinion and then give them a chance to take it in and form a battle plan. They need to focus on improving the product, not running a Q&A session with us.
If Brent is unavailable on weekends, then he should designate a community manager to respond to customers over the weekend.
Perhaps when he (hopefully) turns things around, there will be the money for that. Right now I don't think it's a priority.
we live in the 21st century and for better or worse paying customers often want answers 24/7.
So what? Being in the 21st century doesn't obligate anyone to do anything just because someone on a forum demands it. Again, let's look at Apple. "It's the 21st century, so they should be telling everyone about the secret new products they are developing because paying customers often want answers 24/7!" That is faulty logic. GameSalad have acknowledged the issue with the latest OS X and said they are working on it, expecting to have a build possibly this week.
its incredibly difficult for paying customers to be patient right now when the product they have been paying for doesn't work - flat out.
Yes, agreed. It is hard being patient. I'm not saying I'm fine and dandy here, of course I'd like to have the fix right now as well, as I've updated my OS X. That's why I offered my time for free to test builds and help find bugs quickly, to get stable versions out. Complaining on the Forums (however understandable) will not speed things up.
We are essentially wasting our money currently on a service which is defunct.
Yes. This should be addressed. It would only be fair if they give current subscribers an equivalent number of weeks extra for free. But there is no point doing so until the issues are fixed.
If Gamesalad doesn't act soon I truly believe a lot of us will head to another platform and leave this one
Fair enough. I might as well. I'm waiting to see how things will develop. If they go well, I'll be more than happy to stay, as I have a lot of time invested into GS, including several interesting projects. But if things go another way -- then I'm keeping my eyes open to make sure I have somewhere else to go.
@Armelline said:
Shutting down the community is a ridiculous idea that will remove the most valuable feature of GameSalad.
I agree wholeheartedly. I don't think that @Two.E was necessarily completely serious, the way I read it, it was a reaction to the negativity that is going around a bit lately, which is a sentiment I completely understand.
The Forums are great as long as the community members help each other, support each other. If we stick to that, we can overcome anything.
Of course, the negative and positive go hand in hand often. We are only human, after all. I've had my (ahem) spats with @Socks but at the end of the day I immensely respect him and would always hate to see him go, because he is a huge asset to what the Forums are.
@Lost_Oasis_Games said:
I'll still be checking in to see what's up but other than that I'm going to devote more time to pure enjoyment.
Amen to that! Sad to see you go, your videos are stuff of legend, but I think your priorities are set straight.
Shut down the forums and re-direct to the Learning Tutorials. This would be a short term until GS is ready to support Developer again. No search results will affect or influence GS current reputation. The forums have a lot of false information that simply doesn't need to be there. In the meantime, people can still comment on tutorials released into the system.
Secondly, I would negioate with either @Lost_Oasis_Games , @Braydon_SFX or @Armelline to work closely for a period of time developing a set of tutorials that cover the basics (Up to date version) and have each series link on from each other. I would also work with @tatiang on a documentation regarding functions, expressions and attributes to provide a clear documentation that students can use/print out/learn.
Depending on the contracts and legal obligations, I would re look at the marketplace. Turn it into an additional learning resource in which Tutorials and templates can help better students. (Think pay to watch videos). Excluding the learning tutorials. Send Monthly emails to customers/schools.
Work with a few contract artists to get a portfolio of royalty free assets to be used in the education system.
Contract in place with CodeWizard to fix the current issues. Be on stand by. I don't really know the staff so changes are not really valid.
Now that targeted schools of primary and highs school are being targeted, GS launched a Publisher Partner. Similar to those of appsoloute and Ketchapp, but submissions are for that of schools. This added in the motivation side and compition aspect that drives. Not expecting any great results, only a portable to A) Students to get game launched, and act as a portfolio as the logo "Made with GameSalad" can be used.
Next up would be UI changes, Change to the darker theme for a start. More professional and easier to work with. Make changes to the desired, snap to grid, zoom etc. Make changing an Actors attributes assessable by clicking an actor, rather than opening it up. Such as the windows version.
Make any updates or announcements through the BLOG. This also has a comment section where "loyal" members can comment away. It also keeps it in a controlled enviroment and easy for Staff to read through.
Following this, if the school programs are taking on, or have interest, changes that are suggested by schools are considered and attempted to be made if possible.
Assuming things are starting to look brighter in the education department, the focus then turns back to game developers (Since education doesn't really need full attention beside support (tech and sales). This time, it will be like starting from scratch. I would get rid of the two subscription models and just have the one PRO.
Bring back the forums with selected moderators who will follow certain rules.
Continue to build up the Marketplace. Discourage third-party sites.
Form there it depends on resources. The next step would be to bring back George. Bring on a few more coders. From here the focus will be on developers. Get rid of the BUG report system and replace it with a feature request system that is easier to use. Respond to such system with feedback.
There will be no "Coming soon" posts or announcements. There will be no deadlines. Game salad members currently expect everything to be told to them. This would not be the case.
But just as @lycettebros said, thank goodness I am not CEO because I just want to see this community and software sink.
We are using Game Salad to create free educational games. I'm very excited about the UI changes and all but hope that new features (like audio from expressions) that would make for better quality games won't cease.
@Two.E said:
But just as @lycettebros said, thank goodness I am not CEO because I just want to see this community and software sink.
Then why are you here? Why do people who hate this community so much insist on hanging around injecting bile? You are doing far more damage than any of the posts you're complaining about.
Are you serious?
I am a hater because I have an opinion that: if the focus is not on the developers, there shouldn't be a forum. It was just an opinion based on all the threads. Lets not burn bridges where there isn't any to burn.
@Two.E said:
Are you serious?
I am a hater because I have an opinion that: if the focus is not on the developers, there shouldn't be a forum. It was just an opinion based on all the threads. Lets not burn bridges where there isn't any to burn.
You're a hater because you literally just said this:
I just want to see this community and software sink.
How else can that be interpreted? If it was sarcasm it was very poorly judged. Your comments in general support it being quite serious.
I'm not going to comment on most of this as there really is no point. But I have to say I strongly disagree with this point:
...The community is the worst part of GS. It just destroy everything...
The community is one of the best and most helpful I have ever been a part of. Sure there are disagreements and different points of view but that is just life. The majority of the users I have encountered here are very kind, helpful and supportive. I'd be surprised if you can find a genuinely more helpful community of people online.
So the new CEO has most likely read this.. but is choosing to say nothing since his strategically vague opening statement. He is also choosing to allow us to continue GIVING HIM OUR MONEY!
If you want to see how long it takes before we all CANCEL our subscriptions – I assure you it won't take much longer AND we'll see what happens when the BREAD AND BUTTER IS GONE!
More eggs in more baskets my entrepreneurial buddy makes for a more profitable and secure business – any moron knows that. If you burn the people that are funding this enterprise (US!) then your business is weaker and will die.
I suggest you think long and hard about what you do next dude. We all know you're here for the money – your other enterprises are testimony to that (targeted markets). That's fine – but like I said, the people that have invested so much time and money to date are what you call VALUED CUSTOMERS – the more valued customers, the better. Any CEO worth paying should be able to keep their existing customers whilst developing new ones.
Another $.02 worth to ponder...my wife is a teacher...she is working on a curriculum for game design and asked my input of GS...it was not good. I told her expect the possibility of all your classes suddenly not being able to use GS for a very extended time...probably more than an entire 6 weeks grading period...what will you teach then I asked. She will not be choosing GS.
And now imagine all the teachers and students becoming a part of the forums...lol. Run !
@Thunder_Child said:
...I told her expect the possibility of all your classes suddenly not being able to use GS for a very extended time...
I wonder about this honestly. Typically schools seem to use older (as in not regularly) updated hardware and software. They might actually be shielded somewhat from the troubles of upgrading to new hardware and OS software.
Granted my experience with schools is limited to my sons, but they were always several generations behind the latest and greatest of anything.
@Thunder_Child said:
I told her expect the possibility of all your classes suddenly not being able to use GS for a very extended time...p
Not sure how it is in the US, but in the UK 99% of computers in schools are Windows PC. I'd imagine it's fairly unlikely that many students are/would be affected by the current Mac problems.
@Thunder_Child Well I can only assume if teachers come to the forums expecting answers they will be relying on the community heavily for help, as GS staff will be in imaginary land.
Well I told her of my experiences. What I see. She is filing for grants soon and asked my ideas about doing GS or something else. She's asking for all new PC's for a very old outdated school system. Maybe they would be PC's. I have no experience with GS for PC.
@Thunder_Child, @Armelline, my sons school district was ancient PC's here in the U.S. From what I've experienced it seems that most public schools in my area use PC's.
Given the PC dominated education sector, the (probably introductory) type of game development courses for which GS may be interesting, and looking at the duties the current staff members used to cover, poses another question which Brent could shed light on.
How does all this affect the prioritization and upkeep of the publishing servers, and support for the different app stores?
Or will the primary focus be on Creator/Viewer/Arcade?
Well @bdusing as you can see we are a passionate bunch. Many of us have been using GS for a long time. I remember paying $500 just to open the software, before you could even save your gamestate. I have released over 30 apps using gamesalad on every platform imaginable. I wrote a tutorial on sending and receiving data to your own server. I even got a game greenlit and released on Steam last month. I have been an alpha / beta tester, moderator and more over the years. I have been a big gamesalad supporter over the years.
It pains me to say this, but I honestly don't know where I will be in a year. I am concerned starting a new project without feeling good that everything will be around when I finish. I'm even concerned with finishing the game I have spent the past 18 months on, if I won't be able to support it.
I've sat through many turnovers throughout the years, some seemed well planed (@codewizard taking over), while others didn't (gamesalad direct). This last one came so suddenly; we were talking about a new test build in the slack channel and the next day boom. To rely on a service that has more often than not failed to communicate well, it is scary.
I hope the software develops into an even more stable platform. I hope that communication doesn't disappear like it has in the past. It is not possible to post enough updates in the thread. I hope you are able to continue to add new features. I hope gamesalad is still here in a year
Braydon_SFXMember, Sous Chef, Bowlboy SidekickPosts: 9,273
@jonmulcahy said:
Well @bdusing as you can see we are a passionate bunch. Many of us have been using GS for a long time. I remember paying $500 just to open the software, before you could even save your gamestate. I have released over 30 apps using gamesalad on every platform imaginable. I wrote a tutorial on sending and receiving data to your own server. I even got a game greenlit and released on Steam last month. I have been an alpha / beta tester, moderator and more over the years. I have been a big gamesalad supporter over the years.
It pains me to say this, but I honestly don't know where I will be in a year. I am concerned starting a new project without feeling good that everything will be around when I finish. I'm even concerned with finishing the game I have spent the past 18 months on, if I won't be able to support it.
I've sat through many turnovers throughout the years, some seemed well planed (@codewizard taking over), while others didn't (gamesalad direct). This last one came so suddenly; we were talking about a new test build in the slack channel and the next day boom. To rely on a service that has more often than not failed to communicate well, it is scary.
I hope the software develops into an even more stable platform. I hope that communication doesn't disappear like it has in the past. It is not possible to post enough updates in the thread. I hope you are able to continue to add new features. I hope gamesalad is still here in a year
With all the comments going on here and there, it is not going in any direction, its now to decide with the GS team.. Waiting for feedback from @bdusing ..
I have to agree with @jonmulcahy. I want to keep using and supporting GS but I also feel like it's time to explore other options and really think long term on what I want to be doing for the next several years. There are so many 'turn arounds' and 'changes of direction' so often it really feels like GS has no real direction. Sure the direction of the moment is education, but if that doesn't show results quick enough how soon until the next straw is grabbed.
Anyway, I hope to still be here years from now and look back on all this as just past events.
Comments
You don't need to worry dude. I already suspended my membership and shut down my video livestream and pretty much stopped commenting on the forum. I know you don't like me and that's okay. I won't lose any sleep over it trust me lmao.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
That's very sad @Lost_Oasis_Games, learnt a lot from you. Is it the end of an era?
Maybe someone will take over my spot like I picked up where Tshirtbooth left off. I've already moved on to other things. The last six years were fun and I make many good friends and helped many fulfill their dream of gamemaking. I was a lot of work but I enjoyed it. Now it's time for me to help my son complete his game and with college. Already spending more time at the beach, working on my custom jeep and going out with my wife. I'll probably find a project car and spend more time wrenching, my other hobby. I've been building cars and trucks since I was a teenager.
I'll still be checking in to see what's up but other than that I'm going to devote more time to pure enjoyment.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
@Hypnorabbit @Nabbo (ReflectiveByte) @lycettebros @KevinCross
@Two.E has a point, even if you are not willing to see it. He could possibly make a great CEO -- the job of a CEO is not to pander to ranting requests of users, but to make sure a company has a great product and makes enough money to survive (and hopefully to make a profit). If the situation for the past couple of years is that the hobbyist sector isn't providing the necessary cashflow, but education is, well, then it makes sense to move that way. Yes, this community has provided great support and ideas that have made GS a better product. But if they aren't profitable and go bankrupt, it doesn't matter how good the product was, it will be GONE. Look at some of the most successful companies. Look at Apple. They don't ask their customers what they want. They just deliver a good product that will sell.
Of course, the forum is great and it's an amazing thing that people can express their opinions. Our voices are heard. But you don't need to repeat the same thing again and again ad nauseam. I'm sure Brent Dusing will come back to respond -- but not during the weekend, when he is off. So ranting about him going silent again is only a childish exercise in impatience. No one is expecting you to pretend you are all happy if you aren't. Express your views. But a marker of an adult conversation is that you thoroughly and clearly make your point and then be patient.
Brent Dusing's priorities are solid for the time being, I would say. He highlighted two things: expanding the number of schools using GS and fixing issues. As was pointed out, these are two disconnected efforts and won't affect each other.
Why are they solid? Well, fixing issues is a clear one. And expanding schools is ultra important. It is now June. GS have roughly till the beginning of September to convince schools to come on board. By then, if not earlier, the curriculum will be locked in and tough luck. So, you have June, July, August -- 3 months, which isn't too much.
So, why is that solid? What happens after? If they are successful, they will have stable cash flow and will be able to start hiring more people. Once the bugs are fixed (hopefully soon), the people doing the coding will have their hands free to doing the UI/workflow rewrite. That will make GS easier to use for everyone and it includes some major features we have been asking for (snap to grid etc.). Once that is done, they can focus on brand new features. What will they be? Who knows. But just because their main focus is going to be education (since that's where their funding will come from mostly), doesn't mean that those functions are not going to be helpful to us, or that they will not line up with some of our requests.
If this is all successful and there is stable cash flow, it will likely mean that updates and the quality of updates will far surpass anything in the past. Just remember how it used to be historically. I'm seeing better days ahead. Yes, things can always go wrong, but that's an unnecessary pessimism, which will only creatively push you in a rut and won't help resolve the situation.
This is why stopping feature implementation in the short term is very sensible; nay, necessary.
Asking whether they will be implemented after is somewhat pointless. Brent Dusing is new here. He has to come to grips with the software. He probably doesn't know what will be implemented down the line. When Steve & Steve started Apple in the 1970s, they had no idea there would be an iPhone. But now there is. If Apple went bankrupt, there would be no iPhone. So yes, short term Brent Dusing's plan is what we need.
@pHghost Your essay makes me a bit confused. Comparing Apple to Gamesalad just demonstrates your lack of business knowledge - they are both polar opposites and one of them is a multi-billion dollar company, and a huge rarity in the tech world. The other is a failing platform that has still yet to "get" the value of its community.
Well actually it is. CEOs have a duty to respond to their customers, even during weekends. And especially when it concerns a huge bulk of their paying customers, and long-time customers, posing questions that could seriously jeopardise their current income.
The community is providing solutions and suggestions that could turn Gamesalad around. People that have spoken with GS for years, who now feel neglected and are suggesting moving on. It's just unfortunate that community comments fall on deaf ears - the vast majority of people here want to help and are voicing their concerns.
If Brent is unavailable on weekends, then he should designate a community manager to respond to customers over the weekend. This isn't pre-internet community-building now, we live in the 21st century and for better or worse paying customers often want answers 24/7.
Again, and I agree, its incredibly difficult for paying customers to be patient right now when the product they have been paying for doesn't work - flat out. We are essentially wasting our money currently on a service which is defunct. Brent, or whoever else, has not discussed refunds and so the community will continue to repeat the same request for communication.
We were informed very late of the warning to upgrade OS X as well, and so the majority of users are now trapped with the upgrade, and no working Creator. I went out a bought a MacBook Pro on the weekend and it luckily came pre-installed with 10.11.4 so I'm back at work, but not everybody can do that.
These are just my thoughts based on your comments. If Gamesalad doesn't act soon I truly believe a lot of us will head to another platform and leave this one for the children learning to code (Gamesalad's future market).
Shutting down the community is a ridiculous idea that will remove the most valuable feature of GameSalad. A lot of the complaining may be pointless, but the community adds far more value than the complaints remove. If that's his first idea, I'm very, very glad he isn't CEO.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Then you are completely missing my point. The point was that Apple was once near-bankrupt. What brought it back to life was Steve Jobs coming and streamlining things. Axing a lot of products and focusing on what is sensible. That is hopefully what Brent Dusing will attempt to do. Perhaps not. I have no illusions that GameSalad will rise to the profitability of Apple. That is, of course, not going to happen. But it doesn't need to. What needs to happen is for GameSalad to stand on solid footing, so they can get back to improving their product.
No.
Those are simply your assumptions. It is quite likely that the few of us here on the Forums are NOT "a huge bulk of their paying customers." Or, if we currently are, it isn't enough to keep the ship afloat. And don't get me wrong, I completely agree with your disappointment of how it currently stands with the state of GameSalad and hope things will change rapidly, but I try to be sensible with expectations and not to see doom around every corner.
Solutions that people THINK could turn GameSalad around. That doesn't necessarily mean those people are right. That is what the CEO is probably going to do. Read the comments and make his decisions. Why do you assume that what you write falls on deaf ears? Just because there isn't a response doesn't mean that nobody read what you said and hasn't decided to implement some of it, after deliberation.
Yes. So do I. But by flooding the Forums with repeated comments and demanding replies, you aren't helping much. Voice your opinion and then give them a chance to take it in and form a battle plan. They need to focus on improving the product, not running a Q&A session with us.
Perhaps when he (hopefully) turns things around, there will be the money for that. Right now I don't think it's a priority.
So what? Being in the 21st century doesn't obligate anyone to do anything just because someone on a forum demands it. Again, let's look at Apple. "It's the 21st century, so they should be telling everyone about the secret new products they are developing because paying customers often want answers 24/7!" That is faulty logic. GameSalad have acknowledged the issue with the latest OS X and said they are working on it, expecting to have a build possibly this week.
Yes, agreed. It is hard being patient. I'm not saying I'm fine and dandy here, of course I'd like to have the fix right now as well, as I've updated my OS X. That's why I offered my time for free to test builds and help find bugs quickly, to get stable versions out. Complaining on the Forums (however understandable) will not speed things up.
Yes. This should be addressed. It would only be fair if they give current subscribers an equivalent number of weeks extra for free. But there is no point doing so until the issues are fixed.
Fair enough. I might as well. I'm waiting to see how things will develop. If they go well, I'll be more than happy to stay, as I have a lot of time invested into GS, including several interesting projects. But if things go another way -- then I'm keeping my eyes open to make sure I have somewhere else to go.
I agree wholeheartedly. I don't think that @Two.E was necessarily completely serious, the way I read it, it was a reaction to the negativity that is going around a bit lately, which is a sentiment I completely understand.
The Forums are great as long as the community members help each other, support each other. If we stick to that, we can overcome anything.
Of course, the negative and positive go hand in hand often. We are only human, after all. I've had my (ahem) spats with @Socks but at the end of the day I immensely respect him and would always hate to see him go, because he is a huge asset to what the Forums are.
Amen to that! Sad to see you go, your videos are stuff of legend, but I think your priorities are set straight.
Lets play a fun game. If I was CEO I would....
Shut down the forums and re-direct to the Learning Tutorials. This would be a short term until GS is ready to support Developer again. No search results will affect or influence GS current reputation. The forums have a lot of false information that simply doesn't need to be there. In the meantime, people can still comment on tutorials released into the system.
Secondly, I would negioate with either @Lost_Oasis_Games , @Braydon_SFX or @Armelline to work closely for a period of time developing a set of tutorials that cover the basics (Up to date version) and have each series link on from each other. I would also work with @tatiang on a documentation regarding functions, expressions and attributes to provide a clear documentation that students can use/print out/learn.
Depending on the contracts and legal obligations, I would re look at the marketplace. Turn it into an additional learning resource in which Tutorials and templates can help better students. (Think pay to watch videos). Excluding the learning tutorials. Send Monthly emails to customers/schools.
Work with a few contract artists to get a portfolio of royalty free assets to be used in the education system.
Contract in place with CodeWizard to fix the current issues. Be on stand by. I don't really know the staff so changes are not really valid.
Now that targeted schools of primary and highs school are being targeted, GS launched a Publisher Partner. Similar to those of appsoloute and Ketchapp, but submissions are for that of schools. This added in the motivation side and compition aspect that drives. Not expecting any great results, only a portable to A) Students to get game launched, and
act as a portfolio as the logo "Made with GameSalad" can be used.
Next up would be UI changes, Change to the darker theme for a start. More professional and easier to work with. Make changes to the desired, snap to grid, zoom etc. Make changing an Actors attributes assessable by clicking an actor, rather than opening it up. Such as the windows version.
Make any updates or announcements through the BLOG. This also has a comment section where "loyal" members can comment away. It also keeps it in a controlled enviroment and easy for Staff to read through.
Following this, if the school programs are taking on, or have interest, changes that are suggested by schools are considered and attempted to be made if possible.
Assuming things are starting to look brighter in the education department, the focus then turns back to game developers (Since education doesn't really need full attention beside support (tech and sales). This time, it will be like starting from scratch. I would get rid of the two subscription models and just have the one PRO.
Bring back the forums with selected moderators who will follow certain rules.
Continue to build up the Marketplace. Discourage third-party sites.
Form there it depends on resources. The next step would be to bring back George. Bring on a few more coders. From here the focus will be on developers. Get rid of the BUG report system and replace it with a feature request system that is easier to use. Respond to such system with feedback.
There will be no "Coming soon" posts or announcements. There will be no deadlines. Game salad members currently expect everything to be told to them. This would not be the case.
But just as @lycettebros said, thank goodness I am not CEO because I just want to see this community and software sink.
Best wishes,
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We are using Game Salad to create free educational games. I'm very excited about the UI changes and all but hope that new features (like audio from expressions) that would make for better quality games won't cease.
Then why are you here? Why do people who hate this community so much insist on hanging around injecting bile? You are doing far more damage than any of the posts you're complaining about.
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@Two.E lol
Are you serious?
I am a hater because I have an opinion that: if the focus is not on the developers, there shouldn't be a forum. It was just an opinion based on all the threads. Lets not burn bridges where there isn't any to burn.
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You're a hater because you literally just said this:
How else can that be interpreted? If it was sarcasm it was very poorly judged. Your comments in general support it being quite serious.
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I'm not going to comment on most of this as there really is no point. But I have to say I strongly disagree with this point:
The community is one of the best and most helpful I have ever been a part of. Sure there are disagreements and different points of view but that is just life. The majority of the users I have encountered here are very kind, helpful and supportive. I'd be surprised if you can find a genuinely more helpful community of people online.
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So the new CEO has most likely read this.. but is choosing to say nothing since his strategically vague opening statement. He is also choosing to allow us to continue GIVING HIM OUR MONEY!
Message to new CEO starts here @bdusing :
If you want to see how long it takes before we all CANCEL our subscriptions – I assure you it won't take much longer AND we'll see what happens when the BREAD AND BUTTER IS GONE!
More eggs in more baskets my entrepreneurial buddy makes for a more profitable and secure business – any moron knows that. If you burn the people that are funding this enterprise (US!) then your business is weaker and will die.
I suggest you think long and hard about what you do next dude. We all know you're here for the money – your other enterprises are testimony to that (targeted markets). That's fine – but like I said, the people that have invested so much time and money to date are what you call VALUED CUSTOMERS – the more valued customers, the better. Any CEO worth paying should be able to keep their existing customers whilst developing new ones.
Another $.02 worth to ponder...my wife is a teacher...she is working on a curriculum for game design and asked my input of GS...it was not good. I told her expect the possibility of all your classes suddenly not being able to use GS for a very extended time...probably more than an entire 6 weeks grading period...what will you teach then I asked. She will not be choosing GS.
And now imagine all the teachers and students becoming a part of the forums...lol. Run !
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I wonder about this honestly. Typically schools seem to use older (as in not regularly) updated hardware and software. They might actually be shielded somewhat from the troubles of upgrading to new hardware and OS software.
Granted my experience with schools is limited to my sons, but they were always several generations behind the latest and greatest of anything.
http://jamie-cross.net/posts/ ✮ Udemy: Introduction to Mobile Games Development ✮ Learn Mobile Game Development in One Day Using Gamesalad ✮ My Patreon Page
Not sure how it is in the US, but in the UK 99% of computers in schools are Windows PC. I'd imagine it's fairly unlikely that many students are/would be affected by the current Mac problems.
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@Thunder_Child Well I can only assume if teachers come to the forums expecting answers they will be relying on the community heavily for help, as GS staff will be in imaginary land.
Well I told her of my experiences. What I see. She is filing for grants soon and asked my ideas about doing GS or something else. She's asking for all new PC's for a very old outdated school system. Maybe they would be PC's. I have no experience with GS for PC.
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@Thunder_Child, @Armelline, my sons school district was ancient PC's here in the U.S. From what I've experienced it seems that most public schools in my area use PC's.
http://jamie-cross.net/posts/ ✮ Udemy: Introduction to Mobile Games Development ✮ Learn Mobile Game Development in One Day Using Gamesalad ✮ My Patreon Page
Given the PC dominated education sector, the (probably introductory) type of game development courses for which GS may be interesting, and looking at the duties the current staff members used to cover, poses another question which Brent could shed light on.
How does all this affect the prioritization and upkeep of the publishing servers, and support for the different app stores?
Or will the primary focus be on Creator/Viewer/Arcade?
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Well @bdusing as you can see we are a passionate bunch. Many of us have been using GS for a long time. I remember paying $500 just to open the software, before you could even save your gamestate. I have released over 30 apps using gamesalad on every platform imaginable. I wrote a tutorial on sending and receiving data to your own server. I even got a game greenlit and released on Steam last month. I have been an alpha / beta tester, moderator and more over the years. I have been a big gamesalad supporter over the years.
It pains me to say this, but I honestly don't know where I will be in a year. I am concerned starting a new project without feeling good that everything will be around when I finish. I'm even concerned with finishing the game I have spent the past 18 months on, if I won't be able to support it.
I've sat through many turnovers throughout the years, some seemed well planed (@codewizard taking over), while others didn't (gamesalad direct). This last one came so suddenly; we were talking about a new test build in the slack channel and the next day boom. To rely on a service that has more often than not failed to communicate well, it is scary.
I hope the software develops into an even more stable platform. I hope that communication doesn't disappear like it has in the past. It is not possible to post enough updates in the thread. I hope you are able to continue to add new features. I hope gamesalad is still here in a year
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What he said.
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This cannot be said enough.
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With all the comments going on here and there, it is not going in any direction, its now to decide with the GS team.. Waiting for feedback from @bdusing ..
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I have to agree with @jonmulcahy. I want to keep using and supporting GS but I also feel like it's time to explore other options and really think long term on what I want to be doing for the next several years. There are so many 'turn arounds' and 'changes of direction' so often it really feels like GS has no real direction. Sure the direction of the moment is education, but if that doesn't show results quick enough how soon until the next straw is grabbed.
Anyway, I hope to still be here years from now and look back on all this as just past events.
http://jamie-cross.net/posts/ ✮ Udemy: Introduction to Mobile Games Development ✮ Learn Mobile Game Development in One Day Using Gamesalad ✮ My Patreon Page
Thanks, but not all of us are giving up.
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