@stevej We are making improvements to the current build as well as adding new features. There will likely be at least one more 1.24
I wonder wat the plural word of "features" means Maybe nearest neighbor interpolation, maybe joint support, maybe full steam support, maybe folders workflow inside gamesalad. Damn, I love waiting for christmas !
@gingagaming I completely understand where you're coming from, but I don't think you really take into account what's involved in what you're asking for.
Let's consider the various implications.
The reason you can't roll back is twofold. A number of XML files record the version number of GameSalad that a project was created with. This is the first hurdle, and in many cases is easily overcome. If GameSalad removed that version check from the files it would become a non-issue, or if they allowed certain version to be opened in older Creator version it would become a non-issue. But these version numbers are incremented by GameSalad in much the same way you have increment a version number every time you upload to the App Store. Stopping doing so isn't necessarily simple, and it isn't necessarily wise.
Problem 1: Removing version numbers has complications not visible to us, the user of the product.
But even if we ignore Problem 1, it's not that simple. There are some version changes that do change the XML files - such as the recent custom collision shapes. So GameSalad would need to take this into account, and strip out the new elements of the XML files out.
Problem 2: GameSalad would need to create non-trivial code to do this stripping out.
Let's assume they wrote the necessary code to overcome Problem 2. The average user may not realise that downgrading their project file will remove custom collision shapes. This leads to confused users when their custom collision shapes stop working.
Problem 3: Removal of key features will cause user confusion.
Okay, we can avoid this confusion. Just only allow users to downgrade projects if there are no big feature changes like this. That's feasible. But it means much more work writing the necessary code. And it means this functionality can't be inside the Creator, and would have to be a different, external application. Creator version 1.25 won't necessarily know what Creator version 1.25.1 will include, so it won't know if it should allow a version 1.25.1 project to be opened.
Problem 4: The downgrading would have to take place in an external application.
Problem 5: More resources diverted from improving the Creator to write an external application to downgrade project files, for both Windows and Mac. More resources diverted testing the application.
Let's assume they wrote that external application, and we can all downgrade as often as we want. That still leaves huge support headaches. How many versions of Creator should be supported? How many extra hours of support will be taken up identifying the version users are using? How much time is it worth spending supporting users who found bugs in the downgrade process?
Problem 6: Support has to be provided for numerous versions of Creator - potentially all of them.
Problem 7: Significantly more user confusion and support provided to avoid that confusion when new users try to downgrade to fix problems.
Let's assume all of these problems are overcome. We have a downgrade system via an external application and can downgrade versions at will, and the support system in place to deal with all the new problems. What have we actually achieved? Well, we've diverted a huge amount of resources from the actual problem - issues in the creator. I know this is essentially Problem 5 again, but...
Problem 8: All of this slows down fixing the actual problems in the Creator.
It's easy to ask for a downgrade option, but it's really not simple to provide one.
An easier solution? I'd argue just reverting to the RC system and only pushing to stable would be the way to go. Even then, though, you'll get people upgrading to an RC and then complaining they can't revert back to their old project file - even though RCs force you to save a new file and don't let you automatically overwrite your original file. I'd actually go further, and not announce new RCs on the forums. I'd have a single stickied thread saying "Want to test cutting edge versions of GameSalad?" or somesuch, and have users sign up to a mailing list where they'd be informed about RCs. Ensure only serious users who understand what they're signing up for are using the RCs.
I do not envy GameSalad the position they're in here.
I agree with you @Armelline i do, but the issue is GS are releasing untested builds and are encouraging upgrades by means of notifications rather than discouraging them until fully tested. Then to add to the issue, not offer a fail safe (like rollback which you explain above why they can't) or "save as".
Maybe I'm just fighting a corner I shouldn't. I can work around it just like every other work around we do but for some people it really matters.
@gingagaming said:
I agree with you @Armelline i do, but the issue is GS are releasing untested builds and are encouraging upgrades by means of notifications rather than discouraging them until fully tested. Then to add to the issue, not offer a fail safe (like rollback which you explain above why they can't) or "save as".
Maybe I'm just fighting a corner I shouldn't. I can work around it just like every other work around we do but for some people it really matters.
I think this is a whole different and far, far more valid issue. Quality control does seem to have slipped. That is a corner worth fighting.
Versioning would definitely also help, but not fix a number of the problems I highlight. Would love to see versioning of some kind, though.
@stevej what's the performance like for the custom fonts. @CodeWizard had hinted that there may be a performance issue on Android related to current font rendering. Perhaps the new fonts will address this? Obviously, I'll just try it anyway and see, but just thought I would post the thought. Looking forward to seeing custom fonts! Wahoo!
@stevej said:
As you may know, release 1.25 will contain support for being able to import your own fonts for use in GameSalad.
Does this change include the way text is processed? As far as I am aware, currently it gets rasterized before getting displayed. Is that still going to be the case, or are you tapping into native text rendering?
so should we not ever upgrade @gingagaming .. I am definitely one of those people who sees an upgrade and immediately download... I'm no coder, no programmer, so all of this is foreign to me. How do we know if the update is safe? What does a "broken" game mean? Can someone please explain because I would like to still upgrade but I have no idea what I would be getting myself into...
@digitalzero said:
so should we not ever upgrade @gingagaming .. I am definitely one of those people who sees an upgrade and immediately download... I'm no coder, no programmer, so all of this is foreign to me. How do we know if the update is safe? What does a "broken" game mean? Can someone please explain because I would like to still upgrade but I have no idea what I would be getting myself into...
It's easy. When a new update comes out, make a backup of your project and a backup of the creator. Update and test. If your project is working as expected you are good. If something is broke, use the old version.
I'm one of the lucky ones. I've been going from version to version for 6 years now, and I can't remember when an update broke part of my game. It's happened once or twice, but they always got a fix out in a few days. If I was at the end of a project I would always stick with whatever version I knew worked before upgrading.
@digitalzero said:
so should we not ever upgrade @gingagaming .. I am definitely one of those people who sees an upgrade and immediately download... I'm no coder, no programmer, so all of this is foreign to me. How do we know if the update is safe? What does a "broken" game mean? Can someone please explain because I would like to still upgrade but I have no idea what I would be getting myself into...
This concept of waiting to upgrade applies to most software, not just GS. Most updates have bugs. Apple had major issues with El Capitan and just release a version that finally looks solid. I always wait to update my software that I rely on. Also, one should have a backup system. Anything you devote hundreds of hours of work to should have a backup copy. It takes a minute to duplicate a file. Why anyone would only have one copy is crazy. What if you have a disk error or the file gets corrupted? This just comes back to people being in a rush needlessly. Rushing cost you more time than you save and infact the reverse is true. Planning saves you way more time than rushing.
Yes, having only one copy of your project is not the smartest. Yes, one can upgrade creator and try it on a copy project to check if its a solid build. But I believe many of you folks are missing a very critical point in all this. Having to be weary and scared to even upgrade creator after a new release does not promote good business relationship. I know sometimes bugs slip through the cracks, but these types of slowdowns and project breaking bugs being reported is not something that should be slipping through.
@clee2005 said: @stevej what's the performance like for the custom fonts. @CodeWizard had hinted that there may be a performance issue on Android related to current font rendering. Perhaps the new fonts will address this? Obviously, I'll just try it anyway and see, but just thought I would post the thought. Looking forward to seeing custom fonts! Wahoo!
@stevej said:
As you may know, release 1.25 will contain support for being able to import your own fonts for use in GameSalad.
Does this change include the way text is processed? As far as I am aware, currently it gets rasterized before getting displayed. Is that still going to be the case, or are you tapping into native text rendering?
We are using the FreeType font rendering library. We take your text, rasterize it to a bitmap, and display the image. Performance is good, although there is room for further improvement. On Android, there will probably be a minor performance boost, as we don't need to call back and forth into Java to render the font.
@Lovejoy - Just for example... my game has 69 different saves at this moment (most of us are not so stupid as you think guys). Again... Although I rolled back to .35 and opened old build then Publishing Generator still generated new unplayable APK (there are different updates - Mac Creator, Win Creator and Engine). What could I do?
@Bitvork said:
Although I rolled back to .35 and opened old build then Publishing Generator still generated new unplayable APK (there are different updates - Mac Creator, Win Creator and Engine). What could I do?
This doesn't quite sound right, since it would insinuate that the problem lies with the publishing portal generating the apk, but you never know. In that case, i guess waiting for a new stable build and re-testing it would be your next option.
So @Lost_Oasis_Games how do I make a backup file? Just save it to my flash drive before upgrading and then I'm safe? And do the same thing when it comes to gs as well?
@Bitvork said: @Lovejoy - Just for example... my game has 69 different saves at this moment (most of us are not so stupid as you think guys). Again... Although I rolled back to .35 and opened old build then Publishing Generator still generated new unplayable APK (there are different updates - Mac Creator, Win Creator and Engine). What could I do?
There again you assume because we advice people who don't understand this concept you assume we are speaking to you and by proxy, insulting you. Stop reading into things and stop assuming you're the only one reading this. This is a community and is not all about you. Gheez
@Bitvork said: @Lovejoy - Just for example... my game has 69 different saves at this moment (most of us are not so stupid as you think guys). Again... Although I rolled back to .35 and opened old build then Publishing Generator still generated new unplayable APK (there are different updates - Mac Creator, Win Creator and Engine). What could I do?
I strongly suggest you add this information to your bug report - as @Lovejoy notes, it suggests the problems lies outside of Creator.
Very simply use Save As to save your project under a different name.
That's really the way you should be working any way, you should never work on a single file for any length of time.
Imagine you are working away on a game, let's call it Aliens001, after you make a little progress you then Save As Aliens002, 15 minutes later you get the explosions looking really good, so Save As Aliens003, 6 minutes later you've managed to work out why the score keeps stopping at 222, so you save the progress as Aliens004 . . . and so on . . . at the end of a working day you might have moved the project on from Aliens001 to Aliens036 . . . at the end of the project you might have a folder of two or three hundred incremented files.
With this system, at any stage if you were to lose something, have a corrupted file, accidentally overwrite something you wanted to keep, have a disk error, or power loss during a save or (whatever disaster happens) you can simply jump back to the last saved version having only lost 15 minutes work (or however often you save) rather than weeks or months of work. This is not just a GS thing, this is broadly applicable to all situations where you are working on a project for a while.
If you wanted to further ensure you never lose a project, then at the end of the day (or week) zip up your last file (or last few files if you want) and throw them onto somewhere like MediaFire (free 50GB cloud storage) or even simply email them to yourself.
@digitalzero said:
Just save it to my flash drive before upgrading and then I'm safe? And do the same thing when it comes to gs as well?
You can just use your local drive if you want, a flash drive offers no real advantage (I've had more flash drives die on me than I have every had hard drive issues).
With GS, simply download the new version, no need to delete the old one . . . here is my OS X Dock (with the last 13 versions of GS)
And here is a typical folder for a GS project (748 files, which allows me to step back through the history, right back to the beginning)
@stevej said:
We take your text, rasterize it to a bitmap, and display the image.
This is what I was hoping was NOT the case (the main reason being this can make the text more blurry than sharp, especially when scaling camera), but I'll wait and see it in action. Looking forward to it!
@stevej So will 1.25 creator version fix android never displaying the right font while using the viewer? Or is that strictly the viewers problem? The android viewer always defaults my display text font for me.
@Lovejoy said:
I believe many of you folks are missing a very critical point in all this. Having to be weary and scared to even upgrade creator after a new release does not promote good business relationship. I know sometimes bugs slip through the cracks, but these types of slowdowns and project breaking bugs being reported is not something that should be slipping through.
Thank you @Lovejoy this is my whole point by sticking my nose out here.
@33miles said: @stevej So will 1.25 creator version fix android never displaying the right font while using the viewer? Or is that strictly the viewers problem? The android viewer always defaults my display text font for me.
Yes, it should fix that. Since we'll no longer be relying on system fonts, your text should look the same on all platforms.
BTW, although CodeWizard said in another thread that this would be available by Christmas, given we're still tracking down issues with 1.24, and the short week next week, it's much more likely it will be released before the end of the year, or the 1st week in January at the latest. Just don't want people to have unmet expectations.
Comments
I wonder wat the plural word of "features" means
Maybe nearest neighbor interpolation, maybe joint support, maybe full steam support, maybe folders workflow inside gamesalad. Damn, I love waiting for christmas 
!
@gingagaming I completely understand where you're coming from, but I don't think you really take into account what's involved in what you're asking for.
Let's consider the various implications.
The reason you can't roll back is twofold. A number of XML files record the version number of GameSalad that a project was created with. This is the first hurdle, and in many cases is easily overcome. If GameSalad removed that version check from the files it would become a non-issue, or if they allowed certain version to be opened in older Creator version it would become a non-issue. But these version numbers are incremented by GameSalad in much the same way you have increment a version number every time you upload to the App Store. Stopping doing so isn't necessarily simple, and it isn't necessarily wise.
Problem 1: Removing version numbers has complications not visible to us, the user of the product.
But even if we ignore Problem 1, it's not that simple. There are some version changes that do change the XML files - such as the recent custom collision shapes. So GameSalad would need to take this into account, and strip out the new elements of the XML files out.
Problem 2: GameSalad would need to create non-trivial code to do this stripping out.
Let's assume they wrote the necessary code to overcome Problem 2. The average user may not realise that downgrading their project file will remove custom collision shapes. This leads to confused users when their custom collision shapes stop working.
Problem 3: Removal of key features will cause user confusion.
Okay, we can avoid this confusion. Just only allow users to downgrade projects if there are no big feature changes like this. That's feasible. But it means much more work writing the necessary code. And it means this functionality can't be inside the Creator, and would have to be a different, external application. Creator version 1.25 won't necessarily know what Creator version 1.25.1 will include, so it won't know if it should allow a version 1.25.1 project to be opened.
Problem 4: The downgrading would have to take place in an external application.
Problem 5: More resources diverted from improving the Creator to write an external application to downgrade project files, for both Windows and Mac. More resources diverted testing the application.
Let's assume they wrote that external application, and we can all downgrade as often as we want. That still leaves huge support headaches. How many versions of Creator should be supported? How many extra hours of support will be taken up identifying the version users are using? How much time is it worth spending supporting users who found bugs in the downgrade process?
Problem 6: Support has to be provided for numerous versions of Creator - potentially all of them.
Problem 7: Significantly more user confusion and support provided to avoid that confusion when new users try to downgrade to fix problems.
Let's assume all of these problems are overcome. We have a downgrade system via an external application and can downgrade versions at will, and the support system in place to deal with all the new problems. What have we actually achieved? Well, we've diverted a huge amount of resources from the actual problem - issues in the creator. I know this is essentially Problem 5 again, but...
Problem 8: All of this slows down fixing the actual problems in the Creator.
It's easy to ask for a downgrade option, but it's really not simple to provide one.
An easier solution? I'd argue just reverting to the RC system and only pushing to stable would be the way to go. Even then, though, you'll get people upgrading to an RC and then complaining they can't revert back to their old project file - even though RCs force you to save a new file and don't let you automatically overwrite your original file. I'd actually go further, and not announce new RCs on the forums. I'd have a single stickied thread saying "Want to test cutting edge versions of GameSalad?" or somesuch, and have users sign up to a mailing list where they'd be informed about RCs. Ensure only serious users who understand what they're signing up for are using the RCs.
I do not envy GameSalad the position they're in here.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
I agree with you @Armelline i do, but the issue is GS are releasing untested builds and are encouraging upgrades by means of notifications rather than discouraging them until fully tested. Then to add to the issue, not offer a fail safe (like rollback which you explain above why they can't) or "save as".
Maybe I'm just fighting a corner I shouldn't. I can work around it just like every other work around we do but for some people it really matters.
I think this is a whole different and far, far more valid issue. Quality control does seem to have slipped. That is a corner worth fighting.
Versioning would definitely also help, but not fix a number of the problems I highlight. Would love to see versioning of some kind, though.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay
.
Will we get font custom colors back?
@stevej what's the performance like for the custom fonts. @CodeWizard had hinted that there may be a performance issue on Android related to current font rendering. Perhaps the new fonts will address this? Obviously, I'll just try it anyway and see, but just thought I would post the thought. Looking forward to seeing custom fonts! Wahoo!
Our games http://Donkeysoft.ca
Does this change include the way text is processed? As far as I am aware, currently it gets rasterized before getting displayed. Is that still going to be the case, or are you tapping into native text rendering?
so should we not ever upgrade @gingagaming .. I am definitely one of those people who sees an upgrade and immediately download... I'm no coder, no programmer, so all of this is foreign to me. How do we know if the update is safe? What does a "broken" game mean? Can someone please explain because I would like to still upgrade but I have no idea what I would be getting myself into...
Awesome!!!
✮ FREE TEMPLATES, ANIMATIONS ✮ ✮ GAME PRO MARKET BUY & SELL ✮
It's easy. When a new update comes out, make a backup of your project and a backup of the creator. Update and test. If your project is working as expected you are good. If something is broke, use the old version.
I'm one of the lucky ones. I've been going from version to version for 6 years now, and I can't remember when an update broke part of my game. It's happened once or twice, but they always got a fix out in a few days. If I was at the end of a project I would always stick with whatever version I knew worked before upgrading.
Send and Receive Data using your own Server Tutorial! | Vote for A Long Way Home on Steam Greenlight! | Ten Years Left
This concept of waiting to upgrade applies to most software, not just GS. Most updates have bugs. Apple had major issues with El Capitan and just release a version that finally looks solid. I always wait to update my software that I rely on. Also, one should have a backup system. Anything you devote hundreds of hours of work to should have a backup copy. It takes a minute to duplicate a file. Why anyone would only have one copy is crazy. What if you have a disk error or the file gets corrupted? This just comes back to people being in a rush needlessly. Rushing cost you more time than you save and infact the reverse is true. Planning saves you way more time than rushing.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
Fantastic news on finally opening up font options, is there any chance that bitmap fonts will be included at a later date ?
Yes, having only one copy of your project is not the smartest. Yes, one can upgrade creator and try it on a copy project to check if its a solid build. But I believe many of you folks are missing a very critical point in all this. Having to be weary and scared to even upgrade creator after a new release does not promote good business relationship. I know sometimes bugs slip through the cracks, but these types of slowdowns and project breaking bugs being reported is not something that should be slipping through.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
We are using the FreeType font rendering library. We take your text, rasterize it to a bitmap, and display the image. Performance is good, although there is room for further improvement. On Android, there will probably be a minor performance boost, as we don't need to call back and forth into Java to render the font.
@Lovejoy - Just for example... my game has 69 different saves at this moment (most of us are not so stupid as you think guys). Again... Although I rolled back to .35 and opened old build then Publishing Generator still generated new unplayable APK (there are different updates - Mac Creator, Win Creator and Engine). What could I do?
This doesn't quite sound right, since it would insinuate that the problem lies with the publishing portal generating the apk, but you never know. In that case, i guess waiting for a new stable build and re-testing it would be your next option.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
Thanks so much for the reply @jonmulcahy
So @Lost_Oasis_Games how do I make a backup file? Just save it to my flash drive before upgrading and then I'm safe? And do the same thing when it comes to gs as well?
There again you assume because we advice people who don't understand this concept you assume we are speaking to you and by proxy, insulting you. Stop reading into things and stop assuming you're the only one reading this. This is a community and is not all about you. Gheez
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
I strongly suggest you add this information to your bug report - as @Lovejoy notes, it suggests the problems lies outside of Creator.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Very simply use Save As to save your project under a different name.
That's really the way you should be working any way, you should never work on a single file for any length of time.
Imagine you are working away on a game, let's call it Aliens001, after you make a little progress you then Save As Aliens002, 15 minutes later you get the explosions looking really good, so Save As Aliens003, 6 minutes later you've managed to work out why the score keeps stopping at 222, so you save the progress as Aliens004 . . . and so on . . . at the end of a working day you might have moved the project on from Aliens001 to Aliens036 . . . at the end of the project you might have a folder of two or three hundred incremented files.
With this system, at any stage if you were to lose something, have a corrupted file, accidentally overwrite something you wanted to keep, have a disk error, or power loss during a save or (whatever disaster happens) you can simply jump back to the last saved version having only lost 15 minutes work (or however often you save) rather than weeks or months of work. This is not just a GS thing, this is broadly applicable to all situations where you are working on a project for a while.
If you wanted to further ensure you never lose a project, then at the end of the day (or week) zip up your last file (or last few files if you want) and throw them onto somewhere like MediaFire (free 50GB cloud storage) or even simply email them to yourself.
You can just use your local drive if you want, a flash drive offers no real advantage (I've had more flash drives die on me than I have every had hard drive issues).
With GS, simply download the new version, no need to delete the old one . . . here is my OS X Dock (with the last 13 versions of GS)
And here is a typical folder for a GS project (748 files, which allows me to step back through the history, right back to the beginning)
(
This is what I was hoping was NOT the case (the main reason being this can make the text more blurry than sharp, especially when scaling camera), but I'll wait and see it in action. Looking forward to it!
@stevej So will 1.25 creator version fix android never displaying the right font while using the viewer? Or is that strictly the viewers problem? The android viewer always defaults my display text font for me.
Thank you @Lovejoy this is my whole point by sticking my nose out here.
Yes, it should fix that. Since we'll no longer be relying on system fonts, your text should look the same on all platforms.
@Socks geeze thank you so much for this information!!!! Very much appreciated!
Awesome, I'm really looking forward to this release!
Thanks for the info @stevej 
This is fantastic, been waiting for this feature for a LONG time. Cant wait to implement it
Dwarf Miner
BTW, although CodeWizard said in another thread that this would be available by Christmas, given we're still tracking down issues with 1.24, and the short week next week, it's much more likely it will be released before the end of the year, or the 1st week in January at the latest. Just don't want people to have unmet expectations.