@FallingBoxStudios said:
I don't understand why she needs to be dressed like that anyway seems unnecessary to me.
Totally unnecessary. I have lost a little respect for everyone who posted something grotesque about this stupid discussion. The guy did his job right and kept more junk away from that store.
@jdlcrater said:
Totally unnecessary. I have lost a little respect for everyone who posted something grotesque about this stupid discussion. The guy did his job right and kept more junk away from that store.
It's not a stupid discussion. It's a very important discussion about the value, scope, and place of art in society.
@jdlcrater said:
Totally unnecessary. I have lost a little respect for everyone who posted something grotesque about this stupid discussion. The guy did his job right and kept more junk away from that store.
I don't consider it junk. Some might not agree with the graphics, which was the reason for apple's rejection. The Graphics can always be interchanged. My quandary was
succinct at the commencement of this thread, to ask members their opinion on a particular subject of objectivity. Your viewpoint is however noted.
@superbullet said:
succinct at the commencement of this thread, to ask members their opinion on a particular subject of objectivity. Your viewpoint is however noted.
Why does rockstar use the material they use in their Grand Theft Auto games?
Simple, controversy. If this thread had been about a flappy bird clone, I doubt anyone would have been interested.
Everyone makes flappy bird clones. Not everyone posts about stuff like this. Rockstar is grotesque and evil too. Killing cops? Running over people? All that junk about girls? It is a waste of money and time to play that game. It is un-Christian and I don't want the world to think I like that stuff.
@jdlcrater you were making reasoned and valid points up until bringing religion into the debate.
That potentially opens up a whole new kettle of fish, as now we've got to consider whether one persons views based on religious beliefs are any more valid than someone else's who might have a different religion... or, like many in the world today, no religious belief at all.
Okay. But shouldn't people try to stay away from that stuff anyways? They could be heavily influenced by it then actually do something. Children play that game. What are they going to think is okay through their entire life? I mean... it encourages law braking too. What good comes from stuff like that?
@jdlcrater said:
Okay. But shouldn't people try to stay away from that stuff anyways? They could be heavily influenced by it then actually do something. Children play that game. What are they going to think is okay through their entire life? I mean... it encourages law braking too. What good comes from stuff like that?
Hopefully their parents did their job and none of this will happen. 'Could be influenced' is a pretty broad statement. Courts in the USA have continually ruled that the influence isn't a crime; the person committing the crime is responsible for themselves, as a lot of us believe. If it worked a different way, then jails would be full of artists and writers and film-makers, not criminals. Oh wait, it is like this in some parts of the world, but we don't like people telling us what we can see, read, hear, etc, it is up to us. Some little kids can handle GTA games and some cannot; similarly, some kids can handle learning firearm training and others can't. Just like some can be raised fundamental and not end up abusing others, and some cannot
True. But even if the kids don't get influenced they will still say it is okay to do that in a game because it's not real. That game is still wrong any way you put it. Doesn't matter if it's a game, movie, or music. It is still wrong.
Why do people put such stuff in games they ask?...
....Creatives like to take things to new levels and do whacky fun stuff. If you are not at least doing that then you are doing it wrong.
Creativity does not need to be limited or bound not should it be. What is acceptable can be determined by those it is presented to or those whom experience it. And yes... responsibility does reside on the producer of such product when delivering it (knowing their demographic), but a major chunk is the responsibility of the parents that allow their kids to view/play such content or allow them to have access to it either unknowingly or through trust. You know, the "oh my 6 year old is mature enough to play GTA". type dealie.
A child can easily look up a porn site or engage in unwanted conduct via social apps. Stop pointing the finger at the developer. Parents need to Parent. Interacting and being involved in kids lives is a bit of an issue this digital age.
It's not any different than movies that parents that lets their kids watch hours of movies unattended with free range of the remote.
Point is, there is TONS of content out there that is not agreeable with everyone and it's for sale. Know what shopping isle you are in. If the section says mature, logic would say, "Yup, has mature stuff". If it's not for you, you go to another isle, not complain about the isle for being intrusive because it does not have what you need.
This Chick babe is nothing worse that you see on daily commercials selling soda or a new album.
@jdlcrater said:
True. But even if the kids don't get influenced they will still say it is okay to do that in a game because it's not real. That game is still wrong any way you put it. Doesn't matter if it's a game, movie, or music. It is still wrong.
Even in a religious context, it's all about the dialogue between the child and the adult.
If a child says "it's ok to do this because it's in a video game"
then why shouldn't the adult say something like
"actually, they were just showing you how bad the world can be; this is why we don't do what's in the video game"
There is a game on the front page in the popular games section for iPad right now called Adult Sex Trick. It has 1.5 stars, 70k+ downloads. Right in front of children and everyone. In my opinion, this kind of renders the argument rather moot and ridiculous.
Kid: "Mommy, can I download 'Adult Sex Trick?' It's free!"
Mom: ??!?!?@!?!?!?!??!!?!?!!!!!!!!!!
Kid: "But the reviews say it saved their marriage!"
The fact of the matter is that there is a lot of variance of taste as far as what is good and acceptable in games, and a lot of variance as to how much someone cares about taste at all. Another inescapable fact is that sex sells, and the opinions of those who don't like it matter very little, because they simply aren't where that money is coming from. Though ultimately, those people are useful too. The moment they express their anger, outrage, or disgust about something, they inspire curiosity. That's how things go viral. Curiosity means exposure and downloads, even if they uninstall moments later. That's why it's worthwhile to 'fly close to the sun' on these things sometimes. Go big or go home and re-skin. Or find another market to sell it on, AND re-skin for those that would reject.
That's why Flappy Boob is about to become the next huge blockbuster success, just you wait. I'll make it free, and have IAPs for many hilarious decorative pasties. The main boss will of course be Gravity.
The simple fact of the matter though is that there ARE plenty of irresponsible parents out there, who do leave their young children with free run on the internet/TV/appstores.
Is it really ok to let those children see and become accustomed to things that really aren't appropriate, just because they have useless parents?
So yup... developers should have a partial responsibility too.
Even more so if your planning on making money from someone, be that paid or through adverts etc... then surely you have a responsibility to them?
@Summation said:
Even in a religious context, it's all about the dialogue between the child and the adult.
If a child says "it's ok to do this because it's in a video game"
then why shouldn't the adult say something like
"actually, they were just showing you how bad the world can be; this is why we don't do >what's in the video game"
Good point. But it still is still wrong to look at women like that and treat them like that. And they shouldn't dress like that either! And @RP the 'mature' isle should be a room in the corner that needs to be locked and has no windows and the associate should only open it for the mature. Like I said, women should not be like that or dress like that or be treated how they are in GTA.
@jdlcrater said:
Good point. But it still is still wrong to look at women like that and treat them like that. And they shouldn't dress like that either! And RP the 'mature' isle should be a room in the corner that needs to be locked and has no windows and the associate should only open it for the mature. Like I said, women should not be like that or dress like that or be treated how they are in GTA.
How exactly should women be, and how should they be treated?
Each religion has its own standard for that.
As I'm sure you're aware, certain religions have standards for the treatment of women that people in other religions, and/or in other parts of the world may consider to be barbaric, inhumane, or downright illegal -- genital mutilation, for example.
So who is right and who is wrong?
Each religion will say that they are right and everyone else is wrong.
@Summation said:
How exactly should women be, and how should they be treated?
Each religion has its own standard for that.
As I'm sure you're aware, certain religions have standards for the treatment of women >that people in other religions, and/or in other parts of the world may consider to be >barbaric, inhumane, or downright illegal -- genital mutilation, for example.
So who is right and who is wrong?
Each religion will say that they are right and everyone else is wrong.
Women shouldn't be abused(GTA), treated like the lowest servants ever, or as man bait. And they shouldn't want to act like man bait!
I know every religion is going to say their's is right but did their god make the 10 Commandments that EVERYONE brakes EVERY DAY, did their god create you, the world, the universe, utter nothingness in space, the giant rock you live on? Can their god help a man with a 300 man army defeat thousands of enemies? Can their god turn water to wine or turn a woman who disobeyed Him into a pillar of salt? Can their god answer prayers of the righteous? Can theirs raise from the dead after spending 3 days in Hell? Can theirs raise others from the dead? Can they make a man run faster than a chariot with horses? No they can't.
Also, the human body isn't supposed to be manipulated like gender changing. Or removing the reproductive system. So yes. That is wrong too.
@jdlcrater said:
Good point. But it still is still wrong to look at women like that and treat them like that. And they shouldn't dress like that either! And RP the 'mature' isle should be a room in the corner that needs to be locked and has no windows and the associate should only open it for the mature. Like I said, women should not be like that or dress like that or be treated how they are in GTA.
As a woman, I'm going to have to ask you to slow your roll as far as the whole 'women should/shouldn't do X because my religion says Y' thing. It really won't end well for anyone.
Are you sure you are not Jack Thompson trolling us right now?
Are you interested in Game Development or preaching the gospel and regulation? 'Cause this is not the place for it.
Try http://videogamevoters.org/ They are part of the ESA. If you are on a mission to change gaming I'd recommend this route rather than entering the threads of creatives and attempting to change their minds and ways. It's just not the place for it. Thank you.
@jdlcrater said:
Women shouldn't be abused(GTA), treated like the lowest servants ever, or as man bait. > And they shouldn't want to act like man bait!
I know every religion is going to say their's is right but did their god make the 10 Commandments that EVERYONE brakes EVERY DAY, did their god create you, the world, the universe, utter nothingness in space, the giant rock you live on? Can their god help a man with a 300 man army defeat thousands of enemies? Can their god turn water to wine or turn a woman who disobeyed Him into a pillar of salt? Can their god answer prayers of the righteous? Can theirs raise from the dead after spending 3 days in Hell? Can theirs raise others from the dead? Can they make a man run faster than a chariot with horses? No they can't.
Also, the human body isn't supposed to be manipulated like gender changing. Or removing the reproductive system. So yes. That is wrong too.
As for the objectification of women in a chicken context, consider this example where PETA had women dress in bikinis in order to promote a political message: http://www.peta.org/blog/bravely-going-bikini-gone/
Comments
make it a kfc truck
Totally unnecessary. I have lost a little respect for everyone who posted something grotesque about this stupid discussion. The guy did his job right and kept more junk away from that store.
It's not a stupid discussion. It's a very important discussion about the value, scope, and place of art in society.
Mathtap.com (Android) | Fridgemanager.com (Android) | Breakoutofspace.com (Android)
You are right.
I don't consider it junk. Some might not agree with the graphics, which was the reason for apple's rejection. The Graphics can always be interchanged. My quandary was
succinct at the commencement of this thread, to ask members their opinion on a particular subject of objectivity. Your viewpoint is however noted.
Why would you want to put that in a game anyways?
Why does rockstar use the material they use in their Grand Theft Auto games?
Simple, controversy. If this thread had been about a flappy bird clone, I doubt anyone would have been interested.
Everyone makes flappy bird clones. Not everyone posts about stuff like this. Rockstar is grotesque and evil too. Killing cops? Running over people? All that junk about girls? It is a waste of money and time to play that game. It is un-Christian and I don't want the world to think I like that stuff.
@jdlcrater you were making reasoned and valid points up until bringing religion into the debate.
That potentially opens up a whole new kettle of fish, as now we've got to consider whether one persons views based on religious beliefs are any more valid than someone else's who might have a different religion... or, like many in the world today, no religious belief at all.
Hence...best to keep religion out of it...
Okay. But shouldn't people try to stay away from that stuff anyways? They could be heavily influenced by it then actually do something. Children play that game. What are they going to think is okay through their entire life? I mean... it encourages law braking too. What good comes from stuff like that?
It has a "mature" rating and as such children SHOULD definitely not be allowed to play.
Yea, I know. I've watched videos on youtube of seven year olds being trolled on Call of Duty.
I agree with you though that game is the worst. Still controversy has made Rockstar very wealthy indeed.
Hopefully their parents did their job and none of this will happen. 'Could be influenced' is a pretty broad statement. Courts in the USA have continually ruled that the influence isn't a crime; the person committing the crime is responsible for themselves, as a lot of us believe. If it worked a different way, then jails would be full of artists and writers and film-makers, not criminals. Oh wait, it is like this in some parts of the world, but we don't like people telling us what we can see, read, hear, etc, it is up to us. Some little kids can handle GTA games and some cannot; similarly, some kids can handle learning firearm training and others can't. Just like some can be raised fundamental and not end up abusing others, and some cannot
True. But even if the kids don't get influenced they will still say it is okay to do that in a game because it's not real. That game is still wrong any way you put it. Doesn't matter if it's a game, movie, or music. It is still wrong.
Why do people put such stuff in games they ask?...
....Creatives like to take things to new levels and do whacky fun stuff. If you are not at least doing that then you are doing it wrong.
Creativity does not need to be limited or bound not should it be. What is acceptable can be determined by those it is presented to or those whom experience it. And yes... responsibility does reside on the producer of such product when delivering it (knowing their demographic), but a major chunk is the responsibility of the parents that allow their kids to view/play such content or allow them to have access to it either unknowingly or through trust. You know, the "oh my 6 year old is mature enough to play GTA". type dealie.
A child can easily look up a porn site or engage in unwanted conduct via social apps. Stop pointing the finger at the developer. Parents need to Parent. Interacting and being involved in kids lives is a bit of an issue this digital age.
It's not any different than movies that parents that lets their kids watch hours of movies unattended with free range of the remote.
Point is, there is TONS of content out there that is not agreeable with everyone and it's for sale. Know what shopping isle you are in. If the section says mature, logic would say, "Yup, has mature stuff". If it's not for you, you go to another isle, not complain about the isle for being intrusive because it does not have what you need.
This Chick babe is nothing worse that you see on daily commercials selling soda or a new album.
Even in a religious context, it's all about the dialogue between the child and the adult.
If a child says "it's ok to do this because it's in a video game"
then why shouldn't the adult say something like
"actually, they were just showing you how bad the world can be; this is why we don't do what's in the video game"
Mathtap.com (Android) | Fridgemanager.com (Android) | Breakoutofspace.com (Android)
There is a game on the front page in the popular games section for iPad right now called Adult Sex Trick. It has 1.5 stars, 70k+ downloads. Right in front of children and everyone. In my opinion, this kind of renders the argument rather moot and ridiculous.
Kid: "Mommy, can I download 'Adult Sex Trick?' It's free!"
Mom: ??!?!?@!?!?!?!??!!?!?!!!!!!!!!!
Kid: "But the reviews say it saved their marriage!"
The fact of the matter is that there is a lot of variance of taste as far as what is good and acceptable in games, and a lot of variance as to how much someone cares about taste at all. Another inescapable fact is that sex sells, and the opinions of those who don't like it matter very little, because they simply aren't where that money is coming from. Though ultimately, those people are useful too. The moment they express their anger, outrage, or disgust about something, they inspire curiosity. That's how things go viral. Curiosity means exposure and downloads, even if they uninstall moments later. That's why it's worthwhile to 'fly close to the sun' on these things sometimes. Go big or go home and re-skin. Or find another market to sell it on, AND re-skin for those that would reject.
That's why Flappy Boob is about to become the next huge blockbuster success, just you wait. I'll make it free, and have IAPs for many hilarious decorative pasties. The main boss will of course be Gravity.
The simple fact of the matter though is that there ARE plenty of irresponsible parents out there, who do leave their young children with free run on the internet/TV/appstores.
Is it really ok to let those children see and become accustomed to things that really aren't appropriate, just because they have useless parents?
So yup... developers should have a partial responsibility too.
Even more so if your planning on making money from someone, be that paid or through adverts etc... then surely you have a responsibility to them?
Good point. But it still is still wrong to look at women like that and treat them like that. And they shouldn't dress like that either! And @RP the 'mature' isle should be a room in the corner that needs to be locked and has no windows and the associate should only open it for the mature. Like I said, women should not be like that or dress like that or be treated how they are in GTA.
How exactly should women be, and how should they be treated?
Each religion has its own standard for that.
As I'm sure you're aware, certain religions have standards for the treatment of women that people in other religions, and/or in other parts of the world may consider to be barbaric, inhumane, or downright illegal -- genital mutilation, for example.
So who is right and who is wrong?
Each religion will say that they are right and everyone else is wrong.
Mathtap.com (Android) | Fridgemanager.com (Android) | Breakoutofspace.com (Android)
WTF LOLOLOLOLOL I will play this game when it comes out.
That rubber chicken babe needs a pink bikini!
Women shouldn't be abused(GTA), treated like the lowest servants ever, or as man bait. And they shouldn't want to act like man bait!
I know every religion is going to say their's is right but did their god make the 10 Commandments that EVERYONE brakes EVERY DAY, did their god create you, the world, the universe, utter nothingness in space, the giant rock you live on? Can their god help a man with a 300 man army defeat thousands of enemies? Can their god turn water to wine or turn a woman who disobeyed Him into a pillar of salt? Can their god answer prayers of the righteous? Can theirs raise from the dead after spending 3 days in Hell? Can theirs raise others from the dead? Can they make a man run faster than a chariot with horses? No they can't.
Also, the human body isn't supposed to be manipulated like gender changing. Or removing the reproductive system. So yes. That is wrong too.
As a woman, I'm going to have to ask you to slow your roll as far as the whole 'women should/shouldn't do X because my religion says Y' thing. It really won't end well for anyone.
So tell me Y.
Are you sure you are not Jack Thompson trolling us right now?
Are you interested in Game Development or preaching the gospel and regulation? 'Cause this is not the place for it.
Try http://videogamevoters.org/ They are part of the ESA. If you are on a mission to change gaming I'd recommend this route rather than entering the threads of creatives and attempting to change their minds and ways. It's just not the place for it. Thank you.
Just for reference, and for the sake of comparing two major religions:
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Christianity_vs_Judaism
As for the objectification of women in a chicken context, consider this example where PETA had women dress in bikinis in order to promote a political message:
http://www.peta.org/blog/bravely-going-bikini-gone/
Mathtap.com (Android) | Fridgemanager.com (Android) | Breakoutofspace.com (Android)
Okay @RP. I was just telling @superbullet what he is trying to do is wrong. If you don't want to read anymore you don't have to.
@tatiang You can chime in any time here, boss.
Mathtap.com (Android) | Fridgemanager.com (Android) | Breakoutofspace.com (Android)