@mhedges said:
The "Time Value of Money" concept says that money is worth more now than in the future. Paying GS $299 now is not equivalent to paying $299 over 12 months; they would earn less money with the latter. However, the payment plan alternative is good for both parties, as the purchaser gets to pay in installments, thus freeing cash flow, while the seller does not lose monetary value in the offer. It's a win-win.
Well, BS, sorry.
First off, the difference a year from now is definitely not going to be the amount you are paying extra. Secondly, the the price has consistently stayed at $299 for some time now, if the value of it had gone down then they would've readjusted.
It's a business decision, that's all.
You know -- how about setting the initial contract period to 10 months instead? That way you know that you will not have to pay more than $299 by contract (as if you got a full year), so it's great for the customers (us), but at the same time, GameSalad still keeps the benefit of getting more money for a 12-month period, if people continue to pay month by month, which will definitely suit a lot of people more.
You're correct in the sense that it's a business decision. The decision to price at $299 vs $999 vs $199 is based on ______. How do you fill in the blank? You (should) do a study to determine the optimum pricing strategy. Why they left it at $299 for x consecutive years is/was also a business decision, possibly based on an increasing user base, but at the end it was really _______.
We could go in circles all day, but at the end, the Time Value of Money concept stands. Receiving $300 up front is worth more to GS than receiving $300 over 12 months. Would you rather have your yearly salary be given to you on January 1, or spread over 12 months (all else equal, that is, no splurges and bad decisions as a result of being paid up front)?
Now for the fun part. What really is worth more today?
$299 now. Simple - it's $299 today.
$29 over 12 months - it's $348, but over 12 months. How much is it today? Answer: the present value of twelve installments of $29, at the beginning of each period (month), compounded annually at a rate of, say, 3% (inflation, usually, roughly), equals $343.27. Is it more? Yes. Is it fair? Yes - the business has to set up the system to charge periodically, and runs the risk of non-payment. Plus, for-profit businesses are run to make a profit.
That's also why GS likely won't do a 10-month payment plan at $29.90.
I can tell them what to charge, but I surely can't tell them how to run their business.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is how things stand:
Option 1
Price: $299 in one lump sum
Duration: 1 year
Option 2
Price: $29 each month for 12 months
Duration: 1 year
It's clear that if you choose option 2, after the 12 month period you can continue your contract with GameSalad, but on a month-by-month basis. This means you can cancel at any time with no penalties.
What about after I cancel my contract?
Once your contract is cancelled, you are back to picking Option 1 or Option 2 if you want to be Pro again.
This is exactly how mobile phone contracts work. And the contract for my ISP. And many other services I subscribe to. If you take out a mobile phone contract and after your 12 month contract period ends you decide to keep using it for 2 more months and then decide to cancel it, they'll let you. You've paid your 12 months. However, you can't then expect to phone up your mobile provider and say "Hey, I cancelled my contract 6 months ago, I'd like to start it up again". They'll say "Sure, with a 12 month contract." That's how these things work.
Can't I just sign up for a monthly contract
then stop the payments after a month?
People are suggesting signing up to the contract then cancelling the payments after 1 month. That's something they could do, but I would fully expect GameSalad to actively chase them for payment of the remaining term. And just like if you skip out on your mobile phone contract, your credit rating will be negatively affected. I'd also expect your GameSalad account to be closed. This wouldn't affect any games you had on the app stores, but you'd not be able to update them etc.
Basically, cheat the system if you want but the real world has consequences and your credit rating will almost certainly take a hit.
Why can't I just buy 1 month?
GameSalad give the Creator away for free. They allow you to spend as much time as you want testing it and learning it and making your games without charging you a penny. They do ask that if you want to remove the very limited restrictions that you buy a premium service. It would not be financially sensible of them to allow you to buy that premium service for $29. That's what they'd be doing - selling it for $29. If people could create their game for free then pay $29 the month they want to publish it, that's what people would do. GameSalad would be valuing their product at $29. Not $29 a year. $29.
If GameSalad were to adopt that kind of pricing model, they'd have to remove the free creator option. It would have to be a case of pay the $29 for one month of ANY creator use, or have nothing. That would certainly be an option for them, but it would be a poor decision. Much fewer people would be willing to pay $29 for software they can't even try.
Think of it like Netflix. Imagine if Netflix were to let you browse their library and stream anything in the library at 480p standard definition resolution. Or, you could subscribe for $29 a month and get to download and keep anything you wanted, in high definition 1080p.
If this hypothetical Netflix let you subscribe for only one month at a time, rather than locking you into a contract, what would you do? You'd sign up, download 6 months worth of stuff and cancel. It would make no sense for them to do it.
As it happens, Netflix instead have the third option of not letting you download anything but not locking you into a contract. Essentially the option I just said would be a bad idea for GameSalad - locking out the free version (you can't even browse Netflix's catalogue if you're not a free member). But at the end of the day they're different markets and different things work.
But I have questions!
What's not clear are the following:
If I buy a year of Pro, and then decide to change to monthly payments at the end of that year, can I get month-by-month monthly payments, or only a 12 month contract with monthly payments?
If I sign up to monthly payments, can I purchase a year of Pro in one lump sum, "overriding" the remainder of my monthly payments and adding on to the end? i.e. I'm 6 months into my monthly contract and I buy a year of Pro in one lump sum - I then have 12 months of Pro. But can I do that? And do I still have 6 months of contract months to pay before that 12 months is applied/after it has expired?
What's the discount?
These seem like things important to know that I've either missed or haven't been clearly explained yet
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
@Armelline as I read it you can continue on a monthly basis with no contract as long as you have fulfilled a year through either payment option. I do believe you are right though. As soon as you skip a month your back to a new 12 month period.
As far as a mid way option. I would think in stead of some sort of a pro rated discount you would just pay $299 for 12 months and then your monthly compliment ends. They may not have that built in because it probably won't happen often. Though it seems more than reasonable that they would allow that change in plans. I think their main concern is that they get their consistent 12 months paid for.
ForumNinjaKey Master, Head Chef, Member, PROPosts: 554
@Armelline That's a very good description! To answer your questions:
If I buy a year of Pro, and then decide to change to monthly payments at the end of that year, can I get month-by-month monthly payments, or only a 12 month contract with monthly payments?
I've been informed that you cannot get month-by-month monthly payments as that's not how our billing system is set up. We are considering it for a future update though
If I sign up to monthly payments, can I purchase a year of Pro in one lump sum, "overriding" the remainder of my monthly payments and adding on to the end? i.e. I'm 6 months into my monthly contract and I buy a year of Pro in one lump sum - I then have 12 months of Pro. But can I do that? And do I still have 6 months of contract months to pay before that 12 months is applied/after it has expired?
I would imagine not. I suggest, if you want to move over to paying the lump sum again after doing the monthly payment option, that you wait for the 12 month term to end, shoot us a support request to unsubscribe from paying monthly after the term, and then purchase the 1 payment per year version of PRO.
What's the discount?
The discount is simply referring to the reduced price of paying for the year up front vs. doing the monthly payment plan. ($299 paid up front or $348 if you pay monthly)
PhilipCCEncounter Bay, South AustraliaMemberPosts: 1,390
edited April 2015
@CobraBlade said:
This is certainly a good idea though... Can't help but wish that Pro was still a bit more affordable though. $299 becomes closer to $400 for Ozzies.
Right you are. Last year I renewed for AU $316. But the US$ strengthened over the past 12 months and due to the policies of the current government the AU$ also depreciated. It cost me AU $398 last week!
Im sad reading this. I really thought I could pay monthly whenever I had the time. I wouldn't waste 1 year subscription then only work for 1 month or two. Not knowing I would get back this investment. Well now I know why many creative people here at GS come and go. Only the diehards are left. Diehard guys, are you earning? Or at least getting money to pay your GS subscription payment and time spent back? Or are you donating your time and wasted effort to GS?
@yattamove said:
Im sad reading this. I really thought I could pay monthly whenever I had the time. I wouldn't waste 1 year subscription then only work for 1 month or two. Not knowing I would get back this investment. Well now I know why many creative people here at GS come and go. Only the diehards are left. Diehard guys, are you earning? Or at least getting money to pay your GS subscription payment and time spent back? Or are you donating your time and wasted effort to GS?
How would you propose GameSalad sustained themselves under your pricing model?
I agree with @yattamove then they can cut more staff and pay them less that should give us all the improved product we are all looking for. I just don't understand why someone else won't pay so I can have it cheaper. Can somebody explain that to me?
@colander said:
I agree with yattamove then they can cut more staff and pay them less that should give us all the improved product we are all looking for. I just don't understand why someone else won't pay so I can have it cheaper. Can somebody explain that to me?
Its a little hard to explain without going into too much politics. But to give you the short version, everyone wants handouts and expects others to pay for them and their family.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
It seems like the most profitable thing GameSalad could do is pay us monthly to use pro. (Really need to add an emoji for facepalm @ForumNinja)
PhilipCCEncounter Bay, South AustraliaMemberPosts: 1,390
@tenrdrmer said:
It seems like the most profitable thing GameSalad could do is pay us monthly to use pro. (Really need to add an emoji for facepalm ForumNinja)
Hey, pay by the bug!
The more you report, the more you get paid. Everyone would be stampeding to try out the Nightlies and RC. They'd be swamped with feedback.
@tenrdrmer said:
It seems like the most profitable thing GameSalad could do is pay us monthly to use pro. (Really need to add an emoji for facepalm ForumNinja)
@tenrdrmer said:
It seems like the most profitable thing GameSalad could do is pay us monthly to use pro. (Really need to add an emoji for facepalm ForumNinja)
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Where did you find that @Lovejoy is there a secrecy code I can use for that one? My dang phone only gives me the option of 16 and heck if I know the codes for all the other options...
@tenrdrmer said:
Where did you find that Lovejoy is there a secrecy code I can use for that one? My dang phone only gives me the option of 16 and heck if I know the codes for all the other options...
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Comments
Well, BS, sorry.
First off, the difference a year from now is definitely not going to be the amount you are paying extra. Secondly, the the price has consistently stayed at $299 for some time now, if the value of it had gone down then they would've readjusted.
It's a business decision, that's all.
You know -- how about setting the initial contract period to 10 months instead? That way you know that you will not have to pay more than $299 by contract (as if you got a full year), so it's great for the customers (us), but at the same time, GameSalad still keeps the benefit of getting more money for a 12-month period, if people continue to pay month by month, which will definitely suit a lot of people more.
@pHghost,
You're correct in the sense that it's a business decision. The decision to price at $299 vs $999 vs $199 is based on ______. How do you fill in the blank? You (should) do a study to determine the optimum pricing strategy. Why they left it at $299 for x consecutive years is/was also a business decision, possibly based on an increasing user base, but at the end it was really _______.
We could go in circles all day, but at the end, the Time Value of Money concept stands. Receiving $300 up front is worth more to GS than receiving $300 over 12 months. Would you rather have your yearly salary be given to you on January 1, or spread over 12 months (all else equal, that is, no splurges and bad decisions as a result of being paid up front)?
Now for the fun part. What really is worth more today?
That's also why GS likely won't do a 10-month payment plan at $29.90.
I can tell them what to charge, but I surely can't tell them how to run their business.
My Blog / App Store / Google Play
Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is how things stand:
Option 1
Price: $299 in one lump sum
Duration: 1 year
Option 2
Price: $29 each month for 12 months
Duration: 1 year
It's clear that if you choose option 2, after the 12 month period you can continue your contract with GameSalad, but on a month-by-month basis. This means you can cancel at any time with no penalties.
What about after I cancel my contract?
Once your contract is cancelled, you are back to picking Option 1 or Option 2 if you want to be Pro again.
This is exactly how mobile phone contracts work. And the contract for my ISP. And many other services I subscribe to. If you take out a mobile phone contract and after your 12 month contract period ends you decide to keep using it for 2 more months and then decide to cancel it, they'll let you. You've paid your 12 months. However, you can't then expect to phone up your mobile provider and say "Hey, I cancelled my contract 6 months ago, I'd like to start it up again". They'll say "Sure, with a 12 month contract." That's how these things work.
Can't I just sign up for a monthly contract
then stop the payments after a month?
People are suggesting signing up to the contract then cancelling the payments after 1 month. That's something they could do, but I would fully expect GameSalad to actively chase them for payment of the remaining term. And just like if you skip out on your mobile phone contract, your credit rating will be negatively affected. I'd also expect your GameSalad account to be closed. This wouldn't affect any games you had on the app stores, but you'd not be able to update them etc.
Basically, cheat the system if you want but the real world has consequences and your credit rating will almost certainly take a hit.
Why can't I just buy 1 month?
GameSalad give the Creator away for free. They allow you to spend as much time as you want testing it and learning it and making your games without charging you a penny. They do ask that if you want to remove the very limited restrictions that you buy a premium service. It would not be financially sensible of them to allow you to buy that premium service for $29. That's what they'd be doing - selling it for $29. If people could create their game for free then pay $29 the month they want to publish it, that's what people would do. GameSalad would be valuing their product at $29. Not $29 a year. $29.
If GameSalad were to adopt that kind of pricing model, they'd have to remove the free creator option. It would have to be a case of pay the $29 for one month of ANY creator use, or have nothing. That would certainly be an option for them, but it would be a poor decision. Much fewer people would be willing to pay $29 for software they can't even try.
Think of it like Netflix. Imagine if Netflix were to let you browse their library and stream anything in the library at 480p standard definition resolution. Or, you could subscribe for $29 a month and get to download and keep anything you wanted, in high definition 1080p.
If this hypothetical Netflix let you subscribe for only one month at a time, rather than locking you into a contract, what would you do? You'd sign up, download 6 months worth of stuff and cancel. It would make no sense for them to do it.
As it happens, Netflix instead have the third option of not letting you download anything but not locking you into a contract. Essentially the option I just said would be a bad idea for GameSalad - locking out the free version (you can't even browse Netflix's catalogue if you're not a free member). But at the end of the day they're different markets and different things work.
But I have questions!
What's not clear are the following:
If I buy a year of Pro, and then decide to change to monthly payments at the end of that year, can I get month-by-month monthly payments, or only a 12 month contract with monthly payments?
If I sign up to monthly payments, can I purchase a year of Pro in one lump sum, "overriding" the remainder of my monthly payments and adding on to the end? i.e. I'm 6 months into my monthly contract and I buy a year of Pro in one lump sum - I then have 12 months of Pro. But can I do that? And do I still have 6 months of contract months to pay before that 12 months is applied/after it has expired?
What's the discount?
These seem like things important to know that I've either missed or haven't been clearly explained yet
Anything I've got wrong here?
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
@Armelline as I read it you can continue on a monthly basis with no contract as long as you have fulfilled a year through either payment option. I do believe you are right though. As soon as you skip a month your back to a new 12 month period.
As far as a mid way option. I would think in stead of some sort of a pro rated discount you would just pay $299 for 12 months and then your monthly compliment ends. They may not have that built in because it probably won't happen often. Though it seems more than reasonable that they would allow that change in plans. I think their main concern is that they get their consistent 12 months paid for.
@Armelline That's a very good description! To answer your questions:
I've been informed that you cannot get month-by-month monthly payments as that's not how our billing system is set up. We are considering it for a future update though
I would imagine not. I suggest, if you want to move over to paying the lump sum again after doing the monthly payment option, that you wait for the 12 month term to end, shoot us a support request to unsubscribe from paying monthly after the term, and then purchase the 1 payment per year version of PRO.
The discount is simply referring to the reduced price of paying for the year up front vs. doing the monthly payment plan. ($299 paid up front or $348 if you pay monthly)
Right you are. Last year I renewed for AU $316. But the US$ strengthened over the past 12 months and due to the policies of the current government the AU$ also depreciated. It cost me AU $398 last week!
Exchange rates are out of their control. It wouldn't be fair to just lower the price to accommodate certain countries.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
I think you misunderstood me. My point was that in spite of what it cost me I was happy to pay it and demonstrate my continued support for GS.
I have also said before that over the years I have paid Adobe thousands to licence their CS Suites ( x2 ), so I consider GS Pro is really inexpensive.
Im sad reading this. I really thought I could pay monthly whenever I had the time. I wouldn't waste 1 year subscription then only work for 1 month or two. Not knowing I would get back this investment. Well now I know why many creative people here at GS come and go. Only the diehards are left. Diehard guys, are you earning? Or at least getting money to pay your GS subscription payment and time spent back? Or are you donating your time and wasted effort to GS?
How would you propose GameSalad sustained themselves under your pricing model?
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Sell templates and game assets!
Just kidding, that wouldn't work, look at the marketplace. >:)
I agree with @yattamove then they can cut more staff and pay them less that should give us all the improved product we are all looking for. I just don't understand why someone else won't pay so I can have it cheaper. Can somebody explain that to me?
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
Its a little hard to explain without going into too much politics. But to give you the short version, everyone wants handouts and expects others to pay for them and their family.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
It seems like the most profitable thing GameSalad could do is pay us monthly to use pro. (Really need to add an emoji for facepalm @ForumNinja)
Hey, pay by the bug!
The more you report, the more you get paid. Everyone would be stampeding to try out the Nightlies and RC. They'd be swamped with feedback.
Would this one do?
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
lol +1
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
Where did you find that @Lovejoy is there a secrecy code I can use for that one? My dang phone only gives me the option of 16 and heck if I know the codes for all the other options...
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You can also see more emojis by typing a : followed by a letter like :w
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
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@tenrdrmer @Lovejoy @AlchimiaStudios
I just love all the things I learn in this Forum from all the intellectual conversations that go on.
Oh gosh you got them started now.
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Excuse Me, but I forgot.
What was this thread about? 
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
This needs to be added the forums.
Well it was a long time ago, in a galaxy far away but I think it was about monthly subscriptions to this Gaff