@ Synthesis - Just to be clear I agree 100% 2k is too much.
@Koda - I had a big response typed up, but it's not even worth it. My only response will be; Have you EVER tried to 'directly interact with xCode'. You make it sound simple, it's not my friend. Trust me.
JGary321 said: @ Synthesis - Just to be clear I agree 100% 2k is too much.
@Koda - I had a big response typed up, but it's not even worth it. My only response will be; Have you EVER tried to 'directly interact with xCode'. You make it sound simple, it's not my friend. Trust me.
Yes, I did. It confused the hell out of me, but I would've stuck with it and learned how to use it, had I known that guys paying half as much as I am end up with more features. Hell for us to get the same features they have(and not even that. We still don't have things like the ability to pause, without at least jumping through several hoops to get it working), we have to pay TWENTY TIMES what they paid! That's bullcrap!
Gendai should honestly just do away with the Pro version. Hell, I don't even care if all GS apps have that GS splash screen. It isn't fair that we have to pay more for less. If I knew this would happen, I wouldn't have even bothered in the first place.
Hell, there are plenty of other middleware, just as good as GameSalad, maybe not as user friendly, but still just as good, for half the price or in some cases even free.
@JGary, Xcode isn't simple...but Javascript is easy to learn. And there are several dev platforms using that which provide a LOT of features for the money and ease of scripting.
GS has the dev speed advantage combined with the ability for designers (like me) to prototype a game out...and that is it. Speed is valuable...but not $2K valuable...if you have the amount of limitations currently present in GS.
Our approach right now is... Build a prototype in GS. If it is even mildly successful...then rebuild it better with something else...either Corona or Unity (OR XCode if really good). Invest heavily in the game engines that have full capability and are priced fairly and use GS as a small experimental tool. I don't think we plan to ever drop $2K on a PRO license. We would rather buy more Unity licenses.
synthesis said: @JGary, Xcode isn't simple...but Javascript is easy to learn. And there are several dev platforms using that which provide a LOT of features for the money and ease of scripting.
GS has the dev speed advantage combined with the ability for designers (like me) to prototype a game out...and that is it. Speed is valuable...but not $2K valuable...if you have the amount of limitations currently present in GS.
Our approach right now is... Build a prototype in GS. If it is even mildly successful...then rebuild it better with something else...either Corona or Unity (OR XCode if really good). Invest heavily in the game engines that have full capability and are priced fairly and use GS as a small experimental tool. I don't think we plan to ever drop $2K on a PRO license. We would rather buy more Unity licenses.
@Choosenone... I agree.... $250/year...NO MORE PRO. That is completely doable for 80-90% of us I am sure. Pretty much anyone can scrape together $250 if they want to. Hell...its not much more than an ipod...and less than an XBox.
I'm set on that... $250/year for all features and I shut up completely on the subject.
synthesis said: @Choosenone... I agree.... $250/year...NO MORE PRO. That is completely doable for 80-90% of us I am sure. Pretty much anyone can scrape together $250 if they want to. Hell...its not much more than an ipod...and less than an XBox.
I'm set on that... $250/year for all features and I shut up completely on the subject.
I can't afford that. I don't have a job now, and Apple hasn't paid me yet. I'm still a few bucks shy of them paying me for the US.
A yearly subscription charge of $2000 for iAds... hmmm let's see... might make $50 a month with iAds... 12 x $50 = $600 OH I see whats going on! Game Salad heard that developers could make some money with iAds so they decided that whatever money their membership makes with iAds should be taken out of their pockets and put into Game Salads pockets "Thank You Very Much!"
How do you cancel a membership subscription to Game Salad? I'll start looking around and find out how.
OMG GAMESALAD!!!!! I CRIED WHEN I SAW THIS!!! BUT KNOW IM GOING TO CRY BECAUSE I DONT HAVE A CHANCE TO MAKE MONEY WITH MY "NOOBISH GAMES"!!! SO STUPID THAT YOU DONT WANT INDEPENDENT GAME DEVELOPERS TO MAKE A DECENT LIVING ON THE GAME REVENUE!! PLEASE CHANGE THIS FOR EVERYONE! THIS IS SO INSANE I CANT HANDLE IT!! MAKE IN APP PURCHASE FOR PRO ONLY BUT I NEED IADS!!!!
You know what, forget iads. It's just wrong to put ads in a game, and users would definitely complain! I don't want money from some stupid ads, I want money from the # of downloads I get. I just want to make games, and I think it's ridiculous that we're here fighting about iads when we should be worrying about the million other things Gendai should be adding to this tool because right now we are falling behind. Everything on the appstore is advancing, while GS is staying nuetral and giving us these tiny updates. And there goes gendai allowing users to pause the game when viewing ads, and we still don't have a normal pause feature! And gendai clearly has a lack of communication because I see no responses from them. I'm just so frustrated with them right now, it seems as if all they are trying to do is get more money out of us!
- Not everyone is using GS for games. Ads make sense for some apps. You probably spend the majority of your day perusing websites plastered with ads, so you can't HATE them... ;-)
- Not having iAds is one thing. Developing it and then only giving it to a select few devs is another. I'm angered because it is out there YET it is unattainable.
I can't be bothered reading this entire thread (I have a game to finish and submit) but I for one am GLAD it's pro only. Otherwise we'd have an influx of shovel-ware designed for nothing more than showing ads in the vain hope of making a ton of cash... which wouldn't happen anyway as ads don't get placed in shovel-ware.
Well done Gendai, you made a brave decision, as there's bound to be a !@#$%-load of backlash but you've done what's best for GameSalad and ultimately, the reputation of the community.
JamesZeppelin said: I think Gendai may just be being careful with a fragile apple relationship
I don't think a lot of people realize how many express members there are
Allowing all members could easily cause 2k or more iAd apps instantly
I've seen post with statements like "I have 33 apps ready to go"
YIKES!!!!
.
Pretty much most of the people with Pro are the ones of us that are doing the best. IE, the ones that are actually making a good amount of money from their games.
I'd be interested to know how many pro members there are in total.
Less than 20??? Who knows.
Now, imagine if the pro membership was $500, how many pro members would there be? For Gendai to earn the same amount, it would have to be 4 times as many. So in my "20" example, there would have to be 80 to make the same revenue. IMO, that is very likely, but still a relatively risky move for them just incase they don't get that x4 takeup rate.
@James. I agree having the pro at a high price weeds out some of the shite...but it unfortunately weeds out a fair few "pro minded" devs.
We would deffo go pro if it was $500 a yr. As it stands, $2000 a year, in the current climate, and with the experience of the app store for many indie devs (including us), is just too much of a push to go for right now.
At most, many (serous) indie devs using GS are earning a couple of thousand for a decent game/app.....many more are making only a couple of hundred.(I may be wrong, but that's the info that seems to be coming through on these forums at least, and from my own, all-be-it limited experience this past 6 months)
It's a tough call for Gendai. They NEED to get more features in the pro to make it actually worthwhile if they are sticking to the $2000 price point. At the mo...changing splash, url forwarding and iAds....big meh!
as a pro member owner i am happy about iads. but i think also iads should be for all members. so why don´t add some other features for pro´s? like facebook connect or online highscores? also dynamic urls can be helpfull in some games. i had the idea to send highscoredata to a php script to store it online but i can´t do it with static links. and i think to change this function to dynamic links is not a big deal.
I think its the right move for iAds to be a pro feature, but yup I completely agree that the current price of pro membership is wrong, and needs to be brought down to around $500 per year.
Especially as the software is still unfinished, and can be quite restrictive in what we can create.
Im one of those Express members who really wants the Pro features, but with the software in its current unfinished state, i simply cannot justify paying $2000 per year.
For me, the editor needs some serious improvements and tools adding to bring it up to being a true "professional" grade package worthy of the higher asking price.
Change the price to $500 and they'd have a new pro account subscriber tomorrow....
By the sounds of it, Apple will only approve iAds for apps that are doing well anyway? So if your app is doing well chances are you have the money to purchase Pro membership. If your app is not doing well, then Apple won't select your app for iAds. Is this correct?
I think the folks at GS should consider the following, were I the guy in charge I would do the following. Allow people to sign up for the PRO version and its goodies on a monthly basis, so you pay a monthly subscription price of say, 90 bucks, then you dont have to throw out 2K all at once, if you dont pay, the rev you have will not upload, that gives them a good steady stream of revenue and we get the code for a more affordable fee, over time they make more money. Now I dont know who would do this, I would, but I think a hell of larger bunch of people would do this than pop for the 2K all at once. So the net income to GS would jump, quickly and it would give them a better revenue stream to allow them to do more work on GS. Here is my 90 bucks, every month, they know how many they have as users, what are the numbers.
hrsmedia said: If your app is not doing well, then Apple won't select your app for iAds. Is this correct?
Wow... that could explain what's going wrong with my app... and reasons for me to not to upgrade to pro. If Apple is just going to block my app from receiving iAds, why bother putting all that effort into it?
Comments
@Koda - I had a big response typed up, but it's not even worth it. My only response will be; Have you EVER tried to 'directly interact with xCode'. You make it sound simple, it's not my friend. Trust me.
Gendai should honestly just do away with the Pro version. Hell, I don't even care if all GS apps have that GS splash screen. It isn't fair that we have to pay more for less. If I knew this would happen, I wouldn't have even bothered in the first place.
Hell, there are plenty of other middleware, just as good as GameSalad, maybe not as user friendly, but still just as good, for half the price or in some cases even free.
Xcode isn't simple...but Javascript is easy to learn. And there are several dev platforms using that which provide a LOT of features for the money and ease of scripting.
GS has the dev speed advantage combined with the ability for designers (like me) to prototype a game out...and that is it. Speed is valuable...but not $2K valuable...if you have the amount of limitations currently present in GS.
Our approach right now is...
Build a prototype in GS. If it is even mildly successful...then rebuild it better with something else...either Corona or Unity (OR XCode if really good). Invest heavily in the game engines that have full capability and are priced fairly and use GS as a small experimental tool. I don't think we plan to ever drop $2K on a PRO license. We would rather buy more Unity licenses.
I agree....
$250/year...NO MORE PRO.
That is completely doable for 80-90% of us I am sure.
Pretty much anyone can scrape together $250 if they want to. Hell...its not much more than an ipod...and less than an XBox.
I'm set on that...
$250/year for all features and I shut up completely on the subject.
@Koda,
Unity is $1200 for iPhone development.
OH I see whats going on! Game Salad heard that developers could make some money with iAds so they decided that whatever money their membership makes with iAds should be taken out of their pockets and put into Game Salads pockets "Thank You Very Much!"
How do you cancel a membership subscription to Game Salad? I'll start looking around and find out how.
I would agree except for 2 points:
- Not everyone is using GS for games. Ads make sense for some apps. You probably spend the majority of your day perusing websites plastered with ads, so you can't HATE them... ;-)
- Not having iAds is one thing. Developing it and then only giving it to a select few devs is another. I'm angered because it is out there YET it is unattainable.
Well done Gendai, you made a brave decision, as there's bound to be a !@#$%-load of backlash but you've done what's best for GameSalad and ultimately, the reputation of the community.
I don't think a lot of people realize how many express members there are
Allowing all members could easily cause 2k or more iAd apps instantly
I've seen post with statements like "I have 33 apps ready to go"
YIKES!!!!
.
Less than 20??? Who knows.
Now, imagine if the pro membership was $500, how many pro members would there be? For Gendai to earn the same amount, it would have to be 4 times as many. So in my "20" example, there would have to be 80 to make the same revenue. IMO, that is very likely, but still a relatively risky move for them just incase they don't get that x4 takeup rate.
@James. I agree having the pro at a high price weeds out some of the shite...but it unfortunately weeds out a fair few "pro minded" devs.
We would deffo go pro if it was $500 a yr. As it stands, $2000 a year, in the current climate, and with the experience of the app store for many indie devs (including us), is just too much of a push to go for right now.
At most, many (serous) indie devs using GS are earning a couple of thousand for a decent game/app.....many more are making only a couple of hundred.(I may be wrong, but that's the info that seems to be coming through on these forums at least, and from my own, all-be-it limited experience this past 6 months)
It's a tough call for Gendai. They NEED to get more features in the pro to make it actually worthwhile if they are sticking to the $2000 price point.
At the mo...changing splash, url forwarding and iAds....big meh!
as a pro member owner i am happy about iads.
but i think also iads should be for all members. so why don´t add some other features for pro´s? like facebook connect or online highscores? also dynamic urls can be helpfull in some games. i had the idea to send highscoredata to a php script to store it online but i can´t do it with static links. and i think to change this function to dynamic links is not a big deal.
best regards
Especially as the software is still unfinished, and can be quite restrictive in what we can create.
Im one of those Express members who really wants the Pro features, but with the software in its current unfinished state, i simply cannot justify paying $2000 per year.
For me, the editor needs some serious improvements and tools adding to bring it up to being a true "professional" grade package worthy of the higher asking price.
Change the price to $500 and they'd have a new pro account subscriber tomorrow....
http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=8346
I think its good that iAds is for Pro's only, otherwise what would everyone bitch and moan about..