10 Second load times acceptable? Any feedback appreciated on this

butterbean

So I have an application in the app store "Cake and Ice Cream" that's doing fairly well, however it's receiving some harsh criticism for it's interface, and load times.

I did a massive overhaul of the interface, so instead there are 3 drop down menus from where you can choose items (which should be out by the end of this week)

I had posted a thread before and received positive feedback, but it seems that 10 seconds to load a scene to some people is like waiting in line for a movie for hours.

Is this an acceptable time for load times, or do others think this is too long?

The game itself takes about 4 seconds to load, but once you choose an item, and go into the section where toppings and ice cream are is where it takes 10 seconds.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this.

I feel like I'm in awkward position now, because do I make the app free?

I can't pull it from the app store and upset current customers, and I've been trying to be as responsive as possible to people's concerns.

I have another food app coming out next week too, and it has about the same load times, between 7-10 seconds to load the main scene depending on what device you're using.

butterbean

Any feedback would be great!

quantumsheep

Hey BB, hope you're well

Unfortunately it seems that consumers today are an impatient bunch! A lot of GS users found that the reduced load times were a godsend, as an app taking ages to load was frowned upon by the hoi polloi!

So even though your app now only takes 4 seconds to load, it seems the delay elsewhere is causing you some trouble.

I've just tried your app on my 3GS, and the load time you mentioned is reduced from 7-10 seconds to a perhaps more acceptable 4 seconds.

You might mention in the app description that the load times can be a little longer on older devices perhaps and that you're looking to optimise that.

Talking of that, is there any way to optimise the scene, so that it takes less time?

Another thought is that the next update from GS might improve things. I have no idea what's coming up in the update, but usually there's been a few performance optimisations (like the reduced app load time).

Anyway, hope that helps,

QS

expired_012

7-10 seconds is way too long. Check your RAM levels, and make your images as small as possible that will still be in ok quality. That will speed things up. Also I would say dont make it for free because even really good apps when they are free generally tend to get 1-2 star reviews so by the time you put it back to paid it will have rlly bad reviews and no one will buy it then, thats only how I see it from my personal experience, but maybe its worth a try

butterbean

@QS and Arton appreciate your feedback

@QS: How long did it take you from the time you chose a cone or cake to get into the scene with all the ice cream and toppings? If it's only 4 seconds, then maybe I'll limit it to the 3GS model until this can get rendered, what do you think?

quantumsheep

That's certainly an option, though it may piss off the people that have older devices and already bought your app. No idea though!

And yes, it was only 4 seconds.

butterbean

Yeah I'm not sure what to do, I feel like either way, I'm making a tough choice. I was going to submit an update, and then on the 3rd update, change it to 3GS only, but not sure where to go with it, hopefully the next GS update will fix load time issues, but in the meantime I'm taking a beating in reviews...

firemaplegames

Switching all of your audio files to .caf instead of .ogg should speed up the loading times.

Also, use as few actors as possible. For example, if you have different background image actors for each Scene, just make that one generic background actor and just change its image in each Scene.

butterbean

Joe:

I don't have any audio in there that would greatly impact the app, only 1-2 second sound effects, and only a couple

I do however, have 50 actors total in the scene that's loading, and they're all the ice cream, toppings etc, I imagine that would be what's weighing it down right?

expired_012

FMG, i was just experimenting with that today and I made 15 different scenes with actual gameplay within them using just one actor! It was great to see only 1 actor in my inspector because im so used to having so many useless actors.

firemaplegames

Yeah, I would see if you can streamline the Actors if at all possible. For my current adventure game, which is fairly in-depth, I only have 10 Actors in my Library for the entire game.

If you have Actors that are just images, no Rules, and aren't getting spawned - then you can use just one single generic Actor. Just change its image and size.

Also, if the toppings are all pretty much the same technically - just their image is different, you might want to see if you can make a generic topping actor. Just one Actor for all the toppings. Set the image correctly when you spawn it.

You can concatenate image names in the expression editor, like this:

Change Attribute: self.Image To: "topping_"..game.currentTopping..".png"

Also, GameSalad has to load and decompress all the .ogg files for each Scene, which takes time. .caf files are not compressed and will save you some loading time. Even if it is just a second or two, it might make a difference.

Also, just to be sure, make all of your audio and sound effects mono. If they are stereo, you are loading twice the amount of audio necessary.

butterbean

@Joe: Thanks for the tips, I think as far as this game goes, every actor must have a rule in it and all of them get spawned if they are chosen.... not sure if I can do it that way...

expired_012

@butterbean, wouldn't you be able to still give each actor it's own rules?

butterbean

I'm going to try it that way and see... I can just edit the actor instance...

Eastbound

Perhaps you could implement a system where you press one button option, and it makes 5 more options. Sort of like a drop down menu.

Or maybe you could have the options spawn and fade in after the scene has loaded, and it would probably be a pretty neat effect at that!

I think you could come up with some creative ways to have the number of actors be low when loading the scene, then make the options possible.

Ooh I just had a brilliant idea! You could put 10 options or so into one image, and then have the actor detect which region of the large image you are pressing to select an option.

I think you just need to keep your initial actor count low!

butterbean

I think you nailed it Eastbound!

Great idea Eastbound I did already implement a drop down menu system but I have individual actors in each menu
So should I create one large drop down menu with one image that displays 20 items and program it if touches position x,y then they can spawn the actor?

JGary321

Butterbean my suggestion will not be an easy one, but will get you the best results if you implement it. I implement this in ALL my games/projects from the get-go now. I make everything fit on 1 scene (within reason, obviously this doesnt work for platformers, rpg, etcs...). Instead of moving to a new scene to select toppings or something, you could just move the camera to another space on the scene, that has all the toppings. That way it moves instantly & there is 0 wait.

I do this for ALL menu system's, & within reason I do this for the main game itself if it will work. Try it out, but beware it will take some work to adapt it the the game. But once the game loads it effectively cuts load times to 0. Couple this together with what Joe said (less actors) & your fans will love it.

butterbean

Thats probably the best solution jgary I had thought about that too
I have my work cut out for me! Thanks for all the advice and help!

synthesis

I started a thread on www.GSProForum.com if you are interested. There are some tips and suggestions on how to deal with slow load times as well as ways to address negative feedback.

Thread link:
http://www.gsproforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=93

butterbean

Thanks Synthesis, I'll take a look at the link

I wanted to thank everyone for all your help, Tshirt, Jgary, Eastbound, Codemonkey and everyone

I decided to take the advice of everyone and incorporate it into the app.

I've made everything into one scene, have one large drop down menu for each of the items, and used interpolate to change to different areas of the scene depending on what the player chooses.

Now instead of 10 second load times in between choosing an item, and getting to the main scene, it only takes half a second! (thank you Jgary for advising on this)

So hopefully once the review goes through, things will look better

Thanks again!

Eastbound

Wow this thread was a great read! Lots of interesting takes on a single problem

Added some tags so kids from generations to come may stumble upon it.

quantumsheep

Good idea, Eastbound - I like to do that kind of thing too

And well done BB for biting the bullet and improving your load time more than 10 fold.

And kudos to the GS community for giving suggestions. Especially that JGary bloke...

QS

butterbean

It was a great thread, gave me sooo many new ideas on how to approach issues with load times, and wow what a difference!

Thanks QS JGary's idea was superb and he nailed it, I needed to do all this in one scene Thanks too Eastbound, your idea on creating one backdrop menu with all the items was fabulous

FranzKeller

( Unfortunately, people who play videogames tend to have VERY SHRT ATTN SPNS!
Could there be some connection there? )

;-)> Am reading these good suggestions for the sake of optimization

What are these .CAF audio files, btw? I haven't heard of that format.
(Yes very new here!)