Timolapre its really not very cool m8

UtopianGames

Ok so i thought it was strange when i got a mail from the ad services about this game and apparently he uploaded to google (for a friend) and gave my contact details but now another user has pointed out its on Flippa…come on m8 its really not cool to sell a free template we made for the community.

https://flippa.com/3851640-snowmen-attack-defend-the-eggs-addictive-game

We've been in contact with Flippa and asked them to remove it.

beefy_clyro

FFS why do people always try to take advantage

-Timo-

Darren, I send you a PM.

I made a foolish mistake and just wanted to help a friend without thinking too much about it. I apologized to Darren and the listing has (indirectly) been removed. I made a mistake which I learned from and I hope Darren can forgive me.

@beefy_clyro thank you for your reply. it will help reminding me about the consequences before I do something.

Thunder_Child

So were you selling the template or the app from the app store?

Lovejoy

This is very low. Not a very good image GSinventions has just made about itself. Bad business... Im sure it will not be easily forgotten. At least you are not denying it.

jigglybean

We all make mistakes. Time to move on. If we were all perfect, the world would be a boring place.

-Timo-

@Thunder_Child I don't think it would make any difference but from the app store.

@Lovejoy thanks for telling me again I guess... I kinda already said it myself though.
GSInvention has nothing to do with it. it was my mistake and gsinvention has nothing to do with it. I am only part of gsinvention and if you need, for any reason, to tell me again about my mistake then name me and leave gsinvention out of it. gsinvention is a bigger team of people and they didn't made any mistakes.

@jigglybean thanks! appreciate your comment. you only move on when you learn from your mistakes. I learned from it, apologized and I am ready to move on. hopefully other people think the same way too.

Lovejoy

@timolapre1998 said:
Lovejoy thanks for telling me again I guess... I kinda already said it myself though.

I guess no one else can say anything about it then, since you already said it...

@timolapre1998 said:
GSInvention has nothing to do with it. it was my mistake and gsinvention has nothing to do with it. I am only part of gsinvention and if you need, for any reason, to tell me again about my mistake then name me and leave gsinvention out of it. gsinvention is a bigger team of people and they didn't made any mistakes.

If you think this doesn't affect GSinventions then you are not living in the real world.

Its only been a few hours since you got caught and expect all this to just disappear and move on? Funny joke.

This is not the time to play victim. Just take it all in, hearing it from everyone will help you in the future so there are no more repeats.

-Timo-

@Lovejoy said:
I guess no one else can say anything about it then, since you already said it...

I am just saying I already said it myself and I agree.

@Lovejoy said:
If you think this doesn't affect GSinventions then you are not living in the real world.

the best way of learning is making mistakes. perhaps I am still in the learning stage.

Its only been a few hours since you got caught and expect all this to just disappear and move on? Funny joke.

I know how serious my mistake was and I don't expect to have it just disappear.
it has been a few hours and I already replied trying to make things right. isn't that worth something?

This is not the time to play victim.

I am not the victim, I know, not playing it either... I know I was wrong...

hearing it from everyone will help you in the future so there are no more repeats.

@timolapre1998 said
beefy_clyro thank you for your reply. it will help reminding me about the consequences before I do something.

so I agree...

KillerPenguinStudios

@timolapre1998,

I commend you for owning up to what you did and not try to hide from it. We all do make mistakes and that is a given fact. I have seen way too many times on the forums here and many other places where someone was caught for something, called out on it and they either just hide from it or continue denying it that they didn't know, didn't do it, etc. But your actions are few of many.

Yes, I would be upset and angry too but at the same time forgiving as you stepped up and took the fall for your actions. I believe this has taught you a lesson and I am sure before you do something you will think of the consequences that fallow your actions. It's something we all do. Also, maybe this will help others make the right decision when they are about to do something. Just remember, people only forgive you once and trust you have learned your lesson.

Socks

...

Socks

@timolapre1998 said:
GSInvention has nothing to do with it. it was my mistake and gsinvention has nothing to do with it. I am only part of gsinvention and if you need, for any reason, to tell me again about my mistake then name me and leave gsinvention out of it. gsinvention is a bigger team of people and they didn't made any mistakes.

This idea of some nebulous 'team' seems to be simply a way to avoid collective responsibility as far as I can see ?

By this logic, a company (Company X) can be made up of - for example - 8 people, and person 1 can do something bad and the company avoids getting a bad name as person 1 is not the whole company, he or she is just an individual.

And of course person 7 can do something bad / wrong too, and still Company X keeps a clean record as it was not 'them' but just person 7. And person 2 can do something wrong, still Company X keeps a clean record as person 2 is not Company X . . . etc etc

At which point you have to ask yourself what exactly is Company X except a collection of its members ? Regardless of who does something wrong, Company X always keeps a clean record, Company X can never do anything wrong regardless of what its members do.

Armelline

@Socks said:
By this logic, a company (Company X) can be made up of - for example - 8 people, and person 1 can do something bad and the company avoids getting a bad name as person 1 is not the whole company, he or she is just an individual.

I think that really depends on if the offending party is acting in their own time as their own agent, or on behalf of/under the auspices of the company. If the former, the responsible thing for the company to do is to distance themselves from the individual. If the CEO of Apple committed murder, Apple wouldn't be responsible (obviously depending on the circumstances) but you'd sure expect Cook to get fired and disowned.

Lovejoy

@Armelline said:

But it affects the company as a whole, i think thats the point being made here.

Armelline

@Lovejoy said:
But it affects the company as a whole, i think thats the point being made here.

How much depends on the company's reaction. But I personally think this is all being blown out of proportion. Let each person take from it what they want and keep this incident in mind what considering future interactions with timo. But each person only needs to condemn him once, in my opinion.

Lovejoy

@Armelline said:
How much depends on the company's reaction. But I personally think this is all being blown out of proportion. Let each person take from it what they want and keep this incident in mind what considering future interactions with timo. But each person only needs to condemn him once, in my opinion.

I don't believe this is being blown out of proportion. The moment it involved $$ it made it a crime. Depending on the state you live (if in the US of course) , you can get a fine and even some jail time if pursued.

jigglybean

@Lovejoy said:
I don't believe this is being blown out of proportion. The moment it involved $$ it made it a crime. Depending on the state you live (if in the US of course) , you can get a fine and even some jail time if pursued.

Give it a break. Tims admitted it, said sorry - nothing more to say. Maybe a mod should close this as its run its course.

Lovejoy

@jigglybean said:
Give it a break. Tims admitted it, said sorry - nothing more to say. Maybe a mod should close this as its run its course.

K, ill go rob a bank and say I'm sorry when caught. I will tell them to give me a break, i said sorry and to just let me go.

Nice to know a simple sorry can make things go away regardless of the crime.

If a mod does anything, it should be banning him just like they did the person who stole Tiny Goalie and published in the app store.

Armelline

@Lovejoy said:
Nice to know a simple sorry can make things go away regardless of the crime.

Now you're just being deliberately absurd. Nobody is saying that, we're saying you've said your opinion and harping on about it is just self-indulgent.

Lovejoy

@Armelline said:
Now you're just being deliberately absurd. Nobody is saying that, we're saying you've said your opinion and harping on about it is just self-indulgent.

sorry...

Socks

@timolapre1998 said:
I made a foolish mistake and just wanted to help a friend without thinking too much about it.

It certainly doesn't come across as just a mistake or something you didn't really think about, you appear to have put some effort into this, writing out the features, app description and so on, responding to enquiries over a number of days, posting additional information when requested (Chartboost revenue figures) and so on, you state quite clearly in 'reasons for sale' that the app is your property:

"We are working on a new game and need money to keep it in development. We decided to sell one of our apps to help us receive our goal"

Was this all really just a 'mistake' you did without really thinking about it all ?

And the idea that this was all done because you 'just wanted to help a friend' seems to lend an otherwise seedy situation an air of virtue, I suspect you simply tried to sell other people's property and were caught and it's no more complex than that ?

Socks

@Armelline said:
. . . we're saying you've said your opinion and harping on about it is just self-indulgent.

I'd say this subject was a very important topic, piracy and theft is a very real problem in mobile gaming, I'm also uncomfortable with the idea of [paraphrasing] 'I was doing something noble (helping a friend) and made a silly oversight' being the end of the conversation, I think it warrants discussion.

Socks

@Armelline said:
I think that really depends on if the offending party is acting in their own time as their own agent, or on behalf of/under the auspices of the company. If the former, the responsible thing for the company to do is to distance themselves from the individual. If the CEO of Apple committed murder, Apple wouldn't be responsible (obviously depending on the circumstances) but you'd sure expect Cook to get fired and disowned.

Agreed, some fair points there, although one thing I'd say would be that Tim Cook's crime (murder) could in no way be understood as (or confused with) a branch of Apple's business (unless they release something called iKill™ in the next few months ), whereas someone involved in a template sales website selling a template (he or she doesn't own) on another website is less clear cut, I think the Tim Cook example would be more analogous if Tim Cook were to be caught stealing Samsung's IP or even stealing Apple spare parts and selling them on ebay, or basically anything more 'connected' with the business of Apple.

Armelline

@Socks said:
I'd say this subject was a very important topic, piracy and theft is a very real problem in mobile gaming, I'm also uncomfortable with the idea of [paraphrasing] 'I was doing something noble (helping a friend) and made a silly oversight' being the end of the conversation, I think it warrants discussion.

Discussion, yes. There's a fine line to be trod here, though.

@Socks said:
Agreed, some fair points there, although one thing I'd say would be that Tim Cook's crime (murder) could in no way be understood as (or confused with) a branch of Apple's business

That's a fair point. It's still up to GSInvention to take a stance on it if they want to avoid being tarred by the same brush, as it were.

Socks

@Armelline said:
Discussion, yes. There's a fine line to be trod here, though.

I'd not say that anyone has said anything particularly unwarranted, there is some understandable anger, but nothing out of keeping with what's been done.

You only need imagine if this happened to you (or me) . . . you work on a project for weeks or even months, proud of your finished results, your design, your game mechanic, the sounds, the music, the product of your hard work and many long nights, you upload to the AppStore (or wherever) pleased at having made something you can call your own, only to later find out someone has taken all your hard work and is selling it as their own work, for cash.

They are not only attempting to steal and profit from your property, they are also attempting to defraud the person buying the project, by telling the buyer that he/she has exclusive rights to your work ("all rights of this app will be yours").

I know it doesn't sound like a big deal, but not only do you have your work stolen, but for all we know some time down the line you end up having to do battle (perhaps even legally) with the person who was fraudulently sold your work as he/she insists he has bought the rights to the work.

And when the person behind all this is confronted they not only adopt a kind of position of virtue (I was just helping out a friend), there is also the sense that this is all being written off as just a simple 'mistake' !?

So, if there is a fine line to be trod, or even a line not to be crossed, I wouldn't say it was being done by critics of the person behind this, that to me seems like taking aim at entirely the wrong people.

-Timo-

@Socks said:
so it does grate a little to see eric's drawing code married to elements like my colour selection wheel (you didn't even bother to change my artwork) and then sold on as your own work for $25

wait, what? Eric's drawing code? I don't know how you came to this idea but I made the drawing code myself. I did use your selection wheel but changed it also. this template is removed also so I don't think you can still have problems with this. I do understand you mentioning it though. but I did NOT use eric's drawing code whatsoever.

@Socks said:
It certainly doesn't come across as just a mistake or something you didn't really think about, you appear to have put some effort into this.

well, my friend did. I only helped him where needed. not trying to blame him though. its completely my fault.

@jigglybean @Armelline thanks guys. appreciate your comments. however, I think the comments of others are well-earned to me and they do help me rethink something in the future (if people even want to give me a second chance..).

@Lovejoy
K, ill go rob a bank and say I'm sorry when caught. I will tell them to give me a break, i said sorry and to just let me go.

when you rob a bank you go to jail. when you apologize and you really regret what you did you can leave jail earlier by good behavior. in my opinion this person should deserve a second chance as long as he doesn't do it again.
would you give him a death sentence?

jonmulcahy

I just want to clear something up, that while I don't condone the behavior, i think people have a slight misunderstanding of what happened (and please correct me if I have the misunderstanding).

@timolapre1998 is not selling Darren's template or his code. He listed the published itunes app for sale, not the project, not the code. This was a revenue generating app he was selling.

I do see some problems with the ad description where it is mentioned that the app is original and reskinned. From what I can see that is not the case, so not the most honest description, but this was not an attempt to resell the actual template.

This is a very murky subject. Once an app is published, who owns it, the template maker or the person who purchased the developer account? How would this be different if they hired someone to develop them an app? The terms and conditions don't prohibit republishing the template with the artwork/sound, it explicitly states it is ok to do what you want with them (except reselling the assets)

So, not the best idea, but this wasn't a Mateen.

Armelline

@timolapre1998 said:
but I did NOT use eric's drawing code whatsoever.

I saw the template's logic, and I can confirm it was wholly original drawing logic, not even that similar to eric's.

AlchimiaStudios

Hmm yes bit of a grey area indeed. Not something I would equate to a crime but def not the best idea to sell it. I think DBA might need to write out a policy with explicit policies regarding resale, usage, and rights of an APP if they want to be protected.

In 99% of the templates we release you can use the assets they contain as you wish in your game development endeavours. In some older templatess, we do use ‘stock-art’ as demonstration placeholders. Clearly this art can not be used without permission from the original copyright holder.
In the past we have found users SELLING or RE-SELLING Art, SFX and Music files on 3rd party websites. This is NOT ALLOWED. The DBA team, coders, artist and musicians work hard to bring you these resources at low costs, and re-selling only harms our future viability to continue to bring you these assets.

Doesn't say a thing about selling an app you published on your own. In addition at the asking price of 120$, thats like a few dollar profit after developer costs.

-Timo-

@jonmulcahy said:
He listed the published itunes app for sale, not the project, not the code. This was a revenue generating app he was selling.

yes, that's right. the app will be transferred from itunesconnect account to the buyer. The code wouldn't be part of the transfer.

@jonmulcahy said:
So, not the best idea

no, not even close. I learned from my mistake. what else can I say? I understand the reaction of people and it will take time to make things right. I hope I get the chance.

VGX

I understand the issue here but mistake or not its being dealt with and he apologised. This bitching going on is next level rubbish now. I think people need to stop keyboard bashing and deal with their own problems.