tatiangMember, Sous Chef, PRO, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 11,949
@Thunder_Child No, I didn't read the terms prior to this discussion and I wouldn't have read them prior to entering the contest or publishing a game to the Arcade. It's a valid point that we sign our rights away and can't really complain... but I think that people are mostly upset that they didn't expect their games to be published regardless of the terms of service. I'm glad it's being remedied.
@tatiang said:
Thunder_Child No, I didn't read the terms prior to this discussion and I wouldn't have read them prior to entering the contest or publishing a game to the Arcade. It's a valid point that we sign our rights away and can't really complain... but I think that people are mostly upset that they didn't expect their games to be published regardless of the terms of service. I'm glad it's being remedied.
i think the biggest issue is with the games that @firemaplegames and @DeepBlueApps uploaded years ago, before there was even an 'arcade'. those games were uploaded when you still needed a safari plugin to play if I recall correctly.
anyone who uploaded their game for the gamejams or other contests really don't have much to stand one. But those who uploaded games years ago have the valid complaints.
It was a lot different back in the pre-arcade days. ZombieDrop (bigbananaapps) and Bumps (deepblueapps) would be used among a few others as showcase pieces. If I recall correctly GS asked us to use them in what later turned into the arcade.
None of us would have signed the rights away on what back then was cutting edge GS development. To now claim that there is a tick in some database that didn't even exit back then is more than weak excuse for not doing their job properly.
Honestly, it probably was an accident on GS's side to upload old games... a very unprofessional and large scale mistake, but a mistake none the less.
On a day to day basis building games, how many times have you guys accidently turned a boolean to true, or left a value at default that should be changed, or used a 0 in a table etc.
The difference is most people test before going live with a new system/app/script. This should have been caught during the testing phase. This should have been thought of before the checkbox was even implemented.
Many people have the right to be pissed, some may even have a case for a lawsuit. However if you willingly agreed to the terms for the jams... That's pretty much on you.
Gs really needs to provide some damage control and possibly potential compensation with the individuals who have been screwed the most. I hope they are.
It's the way this is done is whats bothering me most. Agreements or not GameSalad thrives on the kindness of its users and trust in the company. This is breaking that trust. It's a punch in the face, or worse because you can see that coming.
Pretty shady stuff going on by the folks at GameSalad. Mentioned Tizen which makes me wonder how much $$ they made from Amazon on this transaction. Poor stuff GS.
We're getting a more formal response together, folks. In the meantime, I'd really appreciate your patience. We're all crazy busy around here. Dan's out of town at an education conference which is delaying response times. Expect more info soon!
@Socks said:
You mean Dan is out of town spending some of the $18m you got from Amazon on drugs and high-class hookers ? Is that what you mean, it is isn't it ?
Thats a good way to go broke those high class can run you dry
@CodeWizard said:
We're getting a more formal response together, folks. In the meantime, I'd really appreciate your patience. We're all crazy busy around here. Dan's out of town at an education conference which is delaying response times. Expect more info soon!
I am really curious how this 'formal response' will make this into another 'minor mistake' or 'less than perfect result'.
This is a great thing for GS developers, as we are working on things like Fire TV and other new platforms that will bring more options to GS users. Amazon is really excited about promoting the GS community, and we think that's a huge opportunity.
In the midst of a kind of a downer thread this is actually great news. Would love to be able to make console style games for the fire tv. I don't think think is a selfish move from Gamesalad, a partnership with Amazon and revenue from Amazon will only help improve GS which benefits all of us. I was well aware by the game jam rules that I should expect to see the games on amazon, I actually checked a few times before to see if they were up yet.
I think the only people that deserve some frustration are those who had games put on amazon that were not a part of the jams. I understand the frustration, hopefully it gets remedied and won't hurt your efforts. It looks like most those games have been removed and hopefully since they were not being promoted or anything didn't get downloaded for free by many users. Wish everyone best of luck.
So GS screwed over developers again? What else is new. It's starting to seem like a regular occurrence.
In any case, to @SpriteAttack@DeepBlueApps and others that legitimately got screwed over in all this, I'm really sorry for you. I feel your pain and it's utter bulls**t. They better make it up to you guys, as you guys and some others are the glue that hold this place together. Without you all, this place would fall flat on it's face without all the tutorials and countless hours you put into helping others on these forums.
For those of you who submitted to the jam, I'm sorry for you too. I would feel screwed over as well if it had been me, but honestly they got you with that legal jargon companies love to use to f**k people over.
Lessons to take away from this:
Don't trust GS. Sorry GS but trust is earned, and this sure isn't how you earn it.
Don't participate in their jams if you don't want your game highjacked. You sign away your soul.
Don't post anything on their Arcade (I sure don't)
GS can and WILL sell you out for the right price. Or maybe just for a bacon sandwich. :P
Don't put all your eggs in one basket. I suggest looking at other game development software so you aren't trapped on their next big bone job.
Anyways, I hope it all gets sorted out for everyone. It's never fun getting screwed over.
Like in any walk of life, no one is bigger than the club .. To say GS would fall flat on its face without some of the names around here (may I add who rarely post now) is absurd. Sure they were and are, still at times, heavy contributors and their demos/help/tuts/templates etc is very valued, GS certainly wouldn't fall without them. It's the most simplistic software out there, when one person goes from here, another steps forward. Just like I'm sure happens in a whole multitude if situations around you in life!
As for the whole debacle, I'm not entirely sure what some are expecting? They've gone with a blanket upload which has backfired. Sure its up to you whether you buy it or not but the truth is, it's your opinion, you won't know the real answer for sure, all I can do is hope that the company I have heavily backed and supported throughout the years is honest enough with me!
What would be interesting to know is how long the titles were live for and how many downloads they received.
Im glad this thread got unlocked, valid points have been made and we are all waiting to see how all of this gets resolved. Im sure many users are keeping an eye on this thread to see how it all turns up.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
tatiangMember, Sous Chef, PRO, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 11,949
I thought about it and even though some of the comments have gone in a circle and some have been a bit nasty between users (I typically would close a thread for either of those reasons), this is an important thread and I think it needs to stay open until it's resolved.
With a topic about this type of issue - Wouldn't it be CodeWizard or ForumNinja decide to close it as they are the ones commenting and directly involve. Another disappointment towards the GS Community.
I would imagine (after looking at some of the arcade games) at least 700 out of the 800 they uploaded would do GS more harm than good?
The arcade is full of little demos, test projects, game jams etc with only a handful of "proper" games so wouldn't it of been better to select 50 of the best and get in contact with the developers 1st?
Its the developers who were already "selling' or planned to sell their games on Amazon this hurts most and i have sent Dan @dgackey a possible compensation idea that wouldn't cost GS a penny.
Lets see what happens when we hear an official reply.
@SpriteAttack said:
I am waiting for the 'official response'. It's been a week now and no 'official' word.
How long can it take to apologize to the users and clear up this mess - even with some people 'out of town'?
My guess would be trying not to burn bridges with amazon, so its probably a little more complicated if they signed some type of agreement.
Although i do agree that a better response other than so and so is "out of town" should be given. Specially since new games keep popping up on the amazon store, so its either on delayed release for apps or someone is still submitting apps.
It really looks like an automated 'brainless' non-controlled nor checked dump of all that was available. It was a bad move even looking worse the closer you look!
I looked at the screenshots uploaded with it. What the heck is a white screen with two black bars on the side going to say about the game? I did some nice art for this game and they show a white screen? LOL
Same in a few other games... but the gamesalad community screen is nice and visible. This is totally nuts.
I thought I had a good and creative imagination but I can't think of any good reason why GS would do this and think it's beneficial to the company or the community?
They could of purchased the £100 source code from DBA but something tells me they didn't do that
I think GS just published the game from GS arcade, they didn't rename it. See http://arcade.gamesalad.com/games/116972 So somebody probably bought your template, renamed it and published it to Arcade. And now because of this, it ended up on Amazon.
But I agree publishing arcade games to Amazon is a bad move from GS.
Regardless of anything else, I do hope GameAalad offers evidence of the number of downloads received by the games that they never had permission to post - to the game owners, not publicly of course. That way people can have a clear idea of what compensation they're really in need of.
I read the terms and conditions and didn't like them so I didn't enter the competition. I thought it was obvious that they could do whatever they liked with any game I submitted. If you didn't read and/or didn't understand them it is unfair to cry foul you should of made it your business to know what you were signing up for.
I love GS, for me it makes developing games possible and I think in general they are a good bunch of hard working honest people. But I gotta say it is not a tightly run ship and this stuff up of games that weren't in the jam being uploaded with the ones that were doesn't surprise me one bit. It is sad to say but I kind of just expect it from what seems like an under resourced company.
They definitely have some clean up to do and make some sort of compensation to those whose games weren't in the jam.
I'm not sure there should be any differentiation between Jam and Non Jam in this fiasco. We were told our games would be promoted on a "channel"... Which is a completely different thing than publishing them as individual Android apps.
Also... By ticking the box, we agreed to let GameSalad use our games for promotional purposes. This is not promotional, this is financial... There's obviously been some financial gain for GameSalad in this, via their contract with Amazon. So this crosses over the line from Promotional use, to being used for Monetary Gain.
If people are saying this is ok, then what's to stop GS from publishing our games for 99c a download on the Apple AppStore or on Google Play?
Comments
@Thunder_Child No, I didn't read the terms prior to this discussion and I wouldn't have read them prior to entering the contest or publishing a game to the Arcade. It's a valid point that we sign our rights away and can't really complain... but I think that people are mostly upset that they didn't expect their games to be published regardless of the terms of service. I'm glad it's being remedied.
New to GameSalad? (FAQs) | Tutorials | Templates | Greenleaf Games | Educator & Certified GameSalad User
@tatiang. Thanks for the honest answer.
I can understand people not expecting it to happen...although they did disclose that intension.
Btw I can post images agian since this morning. Didnt make it changes it just turned on again somehow.
Complete Guide to iOS Publishing {} Complete Guide to Mac Publishing
i think the biggest issue is with the games that @firemaplegames and @DeepBlueApps uploaded years ago, before there was even an 'arcade'. those games were uploaded when you still needed a safari plugin to play if I recall correctly.
anyone who uploaded their game for the gamejams or other contests really don't have much to stand one. But those who uploaded games years ago have the valid complaints.
Send and Receive Data using your own Server Tutorial! | Vote for A Long Way Home on Steam Greenlight! | Ten Years Left
It was a lot different back in the pre-arcade days. ZombieDrop (bigbananaapps) and Bumps (deepblueapps) would be used among a few others as showcase pieces. If I recall correctly GS asked us to use them in what later turned into the arcade.
None of us would have signed the rights away on what back then was cutting edge GS development. To now claim that there is a tick in some database that didn't even exit back then is more than weak excuse for not doing their job properly.
Honestly, it probably was an accident on GS's side to upload old games... a very unprofessional and large scale mistake, but a mistake none the less.
On a day to day basis building games, how many times have you guys accidently turned a boolean to true, or left a value at default that should be changed, or used a 0 in a table etc.
The difference is most people test before going live with a new system/app/script. This should have been caught during the testing phase. This should have been thought of before the checkbox was even implemented.
Many people have the right to be pissed, some may even have a case for a lawsuit. However if you willingly agreed to the terms for the jams... That's pretty much on you.
Gs really needs to provide some damage control and possibly potential compensation with the individuals who have been screwed the most. I hope they are.
Follow us: Twitter - Website
It's the way this is done is whats bothering me most. Agreements or not GameSalad thrives on the kindness of its users and trust in the company. This is breaking that trust. It's a punch in the face, or worse because you can see that coming.
Lump Apps and My Assets
Pretty shady stuff going on by the folks at GameSalad. Mentioned Tizen which makes me wonder how much $$ they made from Amazon on this transaction. Poor stuff GS.
We're getting a more formal response together, folks. In the meantime, I'd really appreciate your patience. We're all crazy busy around here. Dan's out of town at an education conference which is delaying response times. Expect more info soon!
You mean Dan is out of town spending some of the $18m you got from Amazon on drugs and high-class hookers ? Is that what you mean, it is isn't it ?
lol
Thats a good way to go broke
those high class 
can run you dry 
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
I am really curious how this 'formal response' will make this into another 'minor mistake' or 'less than perfect result'.
Thanks @CodeWizard much appreciated.
Lump Apps and My Assets
In the midst of a kind of a downer thread this is actually great news. Would love to be able to make console style games for the fire tv. I don't think think is a selfish move from Gamesalad, a partnership with Amazon and revenue from Amazon will only help improve GS which benefits all of us. I was well aware by the game jam rules that I should expect to see the games on amazon, I actually checked a few times before to see if they were up yet.
I think the only people that deserve some frustration are those who had games put on amazon that were not a part of the jams. I understand the frustration, hopefully it gets remedied and won't hurt your efforts. It looks like most those games have been removed and hopefully since they were not being promoted or anything didn't get downloaded for free by many users. Wish everyone best of luck.
www.rossmanbrosgames.com
So GS screwed over developers again? What else is new. It's starting to seem like a regular occurrence.
In any case, to @SpriteAttack @DeepBlueApps and others that legitimately got screwed over in all this, I'm really sorry for you. I feel your pain and it's utter bulls**t. They better make it up to you guys, as you guys and some others are the glue that hold this place together. Without you all, this place would fall flat on it's face without all the tutorials and countless hours you put into helping others on these forums.
For those of you who submitted to the jam, I'm sorry for you too. I would feel screwed over as well if it had been me, but honestly they got you with that legal jargon companies love to use to f**k people over.
Lessons to take away from this:
Don't trust GS. Sorry GS but trust is earned, and this sure isn't how you earn it.
Don't participate in their jams if you don't want your game highjacked. You sign away your soul.
Don't post anything on their Arcade (I sure don't)
GS can and WILL sell you out for the right price. Or maybe just for a bacon sandwich. :P
Don't put all your eggs in one basket. I suggest looking at other game development software so you aren't trapped on their next big bone job.
Anyways, I hope it all gets sorted out for everyone. It's never fun getting screwed over.
Like in any walk of life, no one is bigger than the club .. To say GS would fall flat on its face without some of the names around here (may I add who rarely post now) is absurd. Sure they were and are, still at times, heavy contributors and their demos/help/tuts/templates etc is very valued, GS certainly wouldn't fall without them. It's the most simplistic software out there, when one person goes from here, another steps forward. Just like I'm sure happens in a whole multitude if situations around you in life!
As for the whole debacle, I'm not entirely sure what some are expecting? They've gone with a blanket upload which has backfired. Sure its up to you whether you buy it or not but the truth is, it's your opinion, you won't know the real answer for sure, all I can do is hope that the company I have heavily backed and supported throughout the years is honest enough with me!
What would be interesting to know is how long the titles were live for and how many downloads they received.
Wow. Drink'n the haterade huh?
Im glad this thread got unlocked, valid points have been made and we are all waiting to see how all of this gets resolved. Im sure many users are keeping an eye on this thread to see how it all turns up.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
I thought about it and even though some of the comments have gone in a circle and some have been a bit nasty between users (I typically would close a thread for either of those reasons), this is an important thread and I think it needs to stay open until it's resolved.
New to GameSalad? (FAQs) | Tutorials | Templates | Greenleaf Games | Educator & Certified GameSalad User
With a topic about this type of issue - Wouldn't it be CodeWizard or ForumNinja decide to close it as they are the ones commenting and directly involve. Another disappointment towards the GS Community.
I would imagine (after looking at some of the arcade games) at least 700 out of the 800 they uploaded would do GS more harm than good?
The arcade is full of little demos, test projects, game jams etc with only a handful of "proper" games so wouldn't it of been better to select 50 of the best and get in contact with the developers 1st?
Its the developers who were already "selling' or planned to sell their games on Amazon this hurts most and i have sent Dan @dgackey a possible compensation idea that wouldn't cost GS a penny.
Lets see what happens when we hear an official reply.
I am waiting for the 'official response'. It's been a week now and no 'official' word.
How long can it take to apologize to the users and clear up this mess - even with some people 'out of town'?
My guess would be trying not to burn bridges with amazon, so its probably a little more complicated if they signed some type of agreement.
Although i do agree that a better response other than so and so is "out of town" should be given. Specially since new games keep popping up on the amazon store, so its either on delayed release for apps or someone is still submitting apps.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
@Lovejoy - it's insane... I just had a look and found a few more games by gamesalad arcade... There are games in there using template art with watermarks on it (e.g. TankRide - http://www.amazon.com/GameSalad-Arcade-Tank-Ride/dp/B00RV3LPS0/ref=sr_1_274?s=mobile-apps&ie=UTF8&qid=1421922654&sr=1-274&keywords=gamesalad).
Can it get any more unprofessional. How can a bad, bad game be beneficial to gamesalad's reputation? Imho all it does is ruin the image of games made with gamesalad, hence making it harder for everyone on here trying to make good games with the tool.
It really looks like an automated 'brainless' non-controlled nor checked dump of all that was available. It was a bad move even looking worse the closer you look!
Just found another one of ours BloodFlow they renamed it Blood Bar
http://amzn.com/B00SGVDW78
They could of purchased the £100 source code from DBA but something tells me they didn't do that
Also over the last week i have fixed BloodFlow to work with 12.10 so this version is more than likely broken
I also noticed several of the icons are from the original games like Angry Birds, Jetpack Joyride etc.
I'm speechless...
I looked at the screenshots uploaded with it. What the heck is a white screen with two black bars on the side going to say about the game? I did some nice art for this game and they show a white screen? LOL
Same in a few other games... but the gamesalad community screen is nice and visible. This is totally nuts.
I thought I had a good and creative imagination but I can't think of any good reason why GS would do this and think it's beneficial to the company or the community?
I think GS just published the game from GS arcade, they didn't rename it. See http://arcade.gamesalad.com/games/116972 So somebody probably bought your template, renamed it and published it to Arcade. And now because of this, it ended up on Amazon.
But I agree publishing arcade games to Amazon is a bad move from GS.
Regardless of anything else, I do hope GameAalad offers evidence of the number of downloads received by the games that they never had permission to post - to the game owners, not publicly of course. That way people can have a clear idea of what compensation they're really in need of.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
I read the terms and conditions and didn't like them so I didn't enter the competition. I thought it was obvious that they could do whatever they liked with any game I submitted. If you didn't read and/or didn't understand them it is unfair to cry foul you should of made it your business to know what you were signing up for.
I love GS, for me it makes developing games possible and I think in general they are a good bunch of hard working honest people. But I gotta say it is not a tightly run ship and this stuff up of games that weren't in the jam being uploaded with the ones that were doesn't surprise me one bit. It is sad to say but I kind of just expect it from what seems like an under resourced company.
They definitely have some clean up to do and make some sort of compensation to those whose games weren't in the jam.
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
I'm not sure there should be any differentiation between Jam and Non Jam in this fiasco. We were told our games would be promoted on a "channel"... Which is a completely different thing than publishing them as individual Android apps.
Also... By ticking the box, we agreed to let GameSalad use our games for promotional purposes. This is not promotional, this is financial... There's obviously been some financial gain for GameSalad in this, via their contract with Amazon. So this crosses over the line from Promotional use, to being used for Monetary Gain.
If people are saying this is ok, then what's to stop GS from publishing our games for 99c a download on the Apple AppStore or on Google Play?