@Socks said:
This new rule to do with ads was a recent change in policy by Apple, GameSalad are aware of the issue and are working to resolve it as quickly as possible.
But are not warning new users (or existing users). That's the issue. It's been over 5 weeks since they were first made aware of the problem.
@AA app company said:
Wait, can't you publish an app without becoming Pro?
Currently, no. But as far as we know GameSalad intend to address this issue as soon as possible. They want you to be able to, but right now the ads they insert into games made with the free version of the creator will likely result in Apple rejecting your game.
I do want to take this moment to re-clarify that I don't actually care that much about the free/pro debate, my reason for getting involved in this thread was my dislike of the attitude of many of those posting, not to rally against GameSalad in any way.
@Armaline Why should there be the expectation that he search the forums to find recent changes by Apple that GameSalad can't be bothered to inform their users about?
Because there is a sticky thread that advises users to search. Yes GS does a poor job of communicating and should be taken to task over it.
When Apple make major changes that fundamentally affect the functionality of the free >version of GameSalad it's entirely reasonable to expect GameSalad to inform users of >this. They've had months.
I have had no trouble finding out about it. I still agree GS are terrible at communication.
Was his post misguided? Perhaps. Did it include some valid points? Absolutely. Could he >have made them in a more constructive way? Completely. But "he was childish so I was >childish back!" is an argument that has no place even inside a classroom.
I can't see how you got childish out of my post so I'll take that as a comment on others.
Well right now they're not. They're not making money as the games can't be >submitted.
A lot of the games are still getting approved it is a bit hit and miss which must make it very frustrating for GS. So they are getting something out of it how much I don't know I am not privy to GS's financial records.
But the free version is a loss-leader designed to encourage people to >upgrade to pro, >not to make money from the inserted adverts.
You don't know that you are assuming it. It will contribute to their bottom line again I don't know how much but clearly they think it is worth it. If it brings in new users who turn pro then it contributes to their bottom line.
I am not against people right to complain but I am totally against the way @InflatusGames made his complaint. He went the wrong way about it and is being called out for it.
What do you mean? Unless you mean threatening you with a temporary ban. That's a possibility with your insistence of attacking "the monster collective Mod" at every opportunity.
For pointing out what YOU did. The wrong you did. I expected a mod to be a good representative for a company.
You're stoking again as well as underlining your personal attack. I'd advise you to leave that there.
Oh please do explain. I am sure it will contain more insults. I have to say I am disappointed by the responses. Your just digging yourself a deeper hole.
"Oh please do explain" - grow up, will you. And I'm digging no hole - you are. Please read my previous response to you again and you'll find there are no insults. Please stop inciting in the Forums.
@Armelline said:
But are not warning new users (or existing users). That's the issue. It's been over 5 weeks since they were first made aware of the problem.
I expect these issues will always happen, there might well be a 2 month period where GS games are incompatible with iOS 9 and a few weeks in 2018 were the new iPadX breaks any GS project that uses the accelerometer, as well as policy changes in submission, advertising, content (and all the rest), coupe that with all the usual bugs you get in a complex - ever changing - software and hardware ecoystem and GameSalad would be constantly warning us about all sorts of stuff. I'm no developer of SDK software but in my limited experience 5 weeks to resolve something like this doesn't seem unreasonable.
I can't copy and paste on the forums today for some reason so I can't quote you @colander, so please forgive the disorganised response.
Many new users will not even know the forums exist. It is not a requirement for using GameSalad that you visit the forums. It is utterly unrealistic that new users be expected to find vital information by searching the forums - particularly when they do not even know there is a problem. You found out about it because you read the forums. Only a % of the GameSalad userbase do that.
I wasn't referring to your post specifically as childish.
I would be very interested to see stats on what % actually are getting rejected. But that's information we'll never get to see, and nor will GameSalad.
The adverts GameSalad show are for other GameSalad games (unless it got changed, I don't know). As far as I know they are not paid for those adverts. They are essentially advertising their own product. They make their money from the paid version. I'd be very surprised if they make any actual money from the free version. Loss-leaders are very common business practice, particularly in software.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
@Socks - and that makes it okay to belittle people on the forums? That's what my complaint here is about.
@Socks said:
I think the OP set the tone in his initial post.
See my previous example posted elsewhere. I find it very discouraging if that is the accepted attitude of the community. "You were pissed off and frustrated and posted an angry post but since the tone was negative we get to mock you now."
@Armelline said:
See my previous example posted elsewhere. I find it very discouraging if that is the accepted attitude of the community. "You were pissed off and frustrated and posted an angry post but since the tone was negative we get to mock you now."
Really. When you are pointed out for doing a wrong so your going to ban someone. Maybe its not me who needs to "grow up".
My issue isn't at mods only. I5s at everyone who decided to poke fun at someone who only just started to use the forums. Thats were the insults are towards. Not to at me.
You weren't the only one to take a jab a new member. But your a mod. It really shows the disrespectful attitude is everywhere. You were caught out and are trying to shift the blame on to people like me who actually stand up against this.
Really. Your going to say I am the one making it personal. I don't recal me making insults to the thread starter. People in general need to stop thinking your in control and your nasty comments are needed. They are not?
Oh its early morning here. Thanks for pointing it out. (It actually woke me up). Clearly I didn't know my post were going to be taken that way.
OP posted a frustrated rant. Numerous people posted responses ranging from unsympathetic to outright insulting. I argued this was not acceptable behaviour, especially since his core complaint was valid.
You said he set the tone with his original post. I responded that if a poor initial tone is excuse for disparaging responses, it makes me sad.
As I said earlier @Armelline - you can't blame GS for the fact Apple are control freaks. And this kind of thing isn't resolved over night. The change also has an impact on a revenue stream for GS and those using it.
And GS does what it says on the tin. It IS free to publish. It STATES they will place advertising. The OP clearly didn't bother to read the pricing table and just assumed before coming on here and venting like a wet fart.
One of the reasons why I don't publish on Apple is because they are arses. Dictate what you can and can't do then take away a revenue stream from the smaller players. Clearly, they are now just focusing on the triple A studios and making as much money as they can from them.
Apple has forgotten its roots that the indie developer helped shape and drive its crappy iphone and app market and the reward is a kick in the balls.
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gyroscopeI am here.Member, Sous Chef, PROPosts: 6,598
edited July 2014
Firstly, apologies to @InflatusGames and the other members discussing this thread's issues - the reason for saying that, I'm going to continue this unfortunate thread diversion just one more time. And after, hopefully we can all get back to discussing the important issue raised.
@CodeCell said:
Really. When you are pointed out for doing a wrong so your going to ban someone. Maybe its not me who needs to "grow up".
@CodeCell
You just don't get it. I wasn't mentioning banning you temporarily because you are pointing out something I did wrong (although the amount of times you've been mentioning it is something different).
I was mentioning the thought which crossed my mind (see later, at the end of the post) that you deserve a temporary ban because of your general & personal attack(s), mainly in the past anyone who is a mod, myself today.
Also your insistence not to heed warnings about stopping unhelpful posts, and making stirring-up comments in those posts, when it was more than about time we all should have moved on and started to discuss the actual problems given.
Case in point here: "When you are pointed out for doing a wrong" - this "wrong" was a misjudgement made by me, explained as to the original reason I posted the video, and repaired by removal of it. Even after that, you have taken it upon yourself to "pick at it like a scab until it bleeds".
Mentioning the possibility of temporarily banning someone doesn't necessarily mean that a moderator saying that needs to grow up either.
My issue isn't at mods only. I5s at everyone who decided to poke fun at someone who only just started to use the forums. Thats were the insults are towards. Not to at me.
I'll point out your issue has been with Mods as a collective, or as individuals, in some of your past posts, attacking them as if mods are a type of enemy. And now your issue has been with me in particular here in this thread - you just won't leave it alone. And as unhelpful as the negative remarks were made by some other members, that was done, and was simply time to move on after a "wake-up" call by another member here (albeit understandable annoyance over-ramped up too much). But then it was obvious you wanted to keep on "ramping", seemingly wanting to start some sort of "witch hunt". (Well, that's over the top - cause trouble, at least.)
You weren't the only one to take a jab a new member. But your a mod. It really shows the disrespectful attitude is everywhere. You were caught out and are trying to shift the blame on to people like me who actually stand up against this.
It doesn't show "there's a disrespectful attitude everywhere" - it shows that a member who happens to be a mod can make a bad call/mistake/lack of judgement, etc just like any other member might; and also shows that you are not willing to let it go or accept the explanation, and one who is purposefully raking the ashes of this to keep it burning, when it should have been put behind us a while ago, especially after I recommended "you leave it there" or similar in an earlier post.
Really. Your going to say I am the one making it personal. I don't recal me making insults to the thread starter. People in general need to stop thinking your in control and your nasty comments are needed. They are not?
I didn't intentionally set out to insult anyone, full stop. I posted a video with the intention of lightening a situation which I foresaw could have gotten out of control, which was perceived to be insulting by you and another member that I know of. And you did make it personal (with regards to me) no doubt about it.
Even after my explanation of why I posted that comical video and even after I removed it, you've been barking at me from that point on.
I've wasted a good half an hour or more replying to your post - also I've continued this thread with another diversion which shouldn't have been necessary.
Finally, to round things up, I am going to make a decision that your problem stirring, and "attacks" on me ('keeping the pot boiling") as well as other members, Mods or not, past and present, including your refusal to let this particular aspect go) has gone on enough, so you've a temporary ban from the GSC Forums for a month.
A polite piece of advice - when you are allowed to post again in the Forums, best not to single out members whether or not they are Moderators and keep on "rattling cages" or showing sarcasm even after people's polite and sincere explanations of their particular "wrongs". Maybe try starting some helpful threads, or positive help to other members asking questions... just a thought.
OK, for about the third time i've said this, back to the issues relevant to the original poster's words.
@jigglybean said:
As I said earlier Armelline - you can't blame GS for the fact Apple are control freaks. And this kind of thing isn't resolved over night. The change also has an impact on a revenue stream for GS and those using it.
And GS does what it says on the tin. It IS free to publish. It STATES they will place advertising. The OP clearly didn't bother to read the pricing table and just assumed before coming on here and venting like a wet fart.
You are still missing the point (or not actually reading my posts) - GameSalad know there is this issue and are not informing their users. All that's needed is a banner on the download page or pricing page saying something like "We are aware of an issue causing some games made with the free creator to be rejected and are working to fix it asap".
But right now the pricing page is wrong. You cannot publish to iOS with the free version of the creator (not reliably at least). Is that GameSalad's fault? Not entirely. Are they working to fix it? We can only assume so.
But that doesn't change the fact that they are claiming their product can do something it can not and/or not doing enough to notify users of the problem and that it is only temporary.
We see several threads about this issue a day on average. The confusion is real. Saying they need to read the pricing page doesn't help avoid that confusion.
And throwing more insults at the thread starter is really helping.
You're totally wrong @Armelline - gamesalad are not misleading anyone. Sure they have a bug, but in the world of software that happens. However, if the OP cant read clearly that GS puts their own adverts in the free version, then its their fault for not checking properly.
Taking responsibility for your own actions in todays world is a rare trait, as its much easier to blame someone else/company because person X was too lazy to check up first.
Im not going to defend their communication, is it poor but they are coders and coders are not the worlds best communicators.
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I guess we see it differently. When I'm told I can publish to iOS I expect to be able to do so. If there's a bug that makes this impossible, I expect to be informed of that (without having to search through hundreds of forum threads and posts in a forum I don't necessarily even know exists). I don't think it's unreasonable for people to feel burned under these circumstances.
And that's before even getting into how easy it would be to temporarily avoid this problem by turning off the ads in the free version until they have a fix in place.
This isn't a complaint about GameSalad. It's a request for more tolerance of those finding themselves on the bad end of this mess.
dgackeyAustin, TXInactive, PRO, Chef EmeritusPosts: 699
edited July 2014
Well, that escalated quickly!
A couple of points, here, folks.
1) As was pointed out in this thread, we did make the decision to implement interstitial ads into apps published with the free version of GS, and I personally updated the Creator page on GS.com to reflect that fact. Supporting hundreds of thousands of free accounts and apps is not a trivial matter, in terms of manpower or expense. Inserting ads is a way for us to recoup a tiny fraction of those costs, and we feel it's a reasonable tradeoff.
This has been the case for a while now and we have had thousands of free games go through with no problems. Only recently did Apple's certification policies change, triggering this new round of rejections for our users.
2) The (at the time) sudden influx of tickets about rejection due to ad networks was, as mention here, a result of Apple changing their policies, and as I have stated repeatedly, we do not get any special consideration or advance notice from Apple on this stuff.
They won't even allow us to work with support engineers who get tickets from you guys, so we can't respond to these kinds of situations unless we experience the exact same issue. Consequently, the only way for us to isolate the root cause of many of these issues is to build our own apps that recreate similar conditions and submit them, hoping for failure so we can open a dialogue with them.
3) In the case of this particular issue, we had already pushed a publishing fix out for this issue that resolves the issue for any new publishes, but a fix that would resolve the issue for users who had already published and been rejected had not yet gone live, and we didn't realize it. That has been resolved and that fix has been pushed.
4) Just to be safe, any users of GameSalad FREE who have been rejected by Apple for ad issues should re-publish their apps and re-submit to Apple. You do not need a new Creator download, just re-publish.
5) This should go without saying, but apparently I need to stress this, so here goes: there was no ulterior motive or devious attempt to trick prospective customers here. Apple changed their rules, we isolated the issue and (thought) we addressed it, but we didn't catch everyone, and didn't realize it until just now.
6) With that said, another theme I am always repeating and will continue to repeat is that resources are limited. We are a small company and have a lot of ground to cover. We are maintaining and improving a tool that essentially supports almost the entire mobile ecosystem, and we're doing it with less than 20 people. On top of that, the ecosystem is constantly changing. So yes, it does take us longer to address issues than we'd like sometimes, and we are always looking to improve our efficiency, but this is the current reality.
We will continue to strive to serve every customer to the best of our ability and appreciate your business and support.
Thanks,
Dan
tl:dr; YES, you can publish free to iOS just like before. YES, we put ads in to try and recoup some of our expenses. YES, you need to republish if you've been hit with an Apple rejection. And YES, we are sorry it took us so long to get to the bottom of it and address it.
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
Perfectly understandable situation really, but one thing is for sure. The public facing bug database should provide a lot of transparency on issues like this, and prevent threads like this from escalating. Hope to see it soon!
I didn't realize my post would start a war on the GS Forums. I didn't want it to, for that matter. I was just angry and frustrated that I spent well over a month and a half of work on my game only to learn it would be rejected.
That post I made was me venting my frustration, as I had received the status from iTunes Connect only minutes before. I had little time for rational thought, and, as such, my words probably sounded angry, hateful, and even entitled (not sure how that connection was made, but it was).
The purpose of this thread was not to rant against GameSalad (though I still have permanent negative feelings for it after this experience). I merely wanted to inform, and at the same time warn, potential new GS users of the, for lack of a better word, complications that GameSalad never warned me of.
I'm sorry that I didn't search through every thread on GameSalad to learn about a new Apple policy change that I had no clue existed (last night was my first time on the GameSalad forums). I'm sorry I didn't look at the differences between GameSalad Free and GameSalad Pro; I had and still don't have any intention of buying GameSalad Pro. I'm sorry that I didn't read the "pricing table" that "STATES they will place advertising." I'm sorry that "The OP clearly didn't bother to read the pricing table and just assumed before coming on here and venting like a wet fart."
One can't expect new members, such as myself, to know what to do and where to go to find out about changes in policy and similar happenings. To tell you the truth, I didn't know the forums EXISTED until a few days ago. GameSalad needs better communication with it's members, and that is why I created this thread.
I'm only fourteen years old. $300 IS a lot of money. I was hoping to make a simple game that would (hopefully) make back that $99 Developer account (and a little more) to motivate me as I learned the actual code to make better apps. I was not looking to make the next Flappy Bird; I was not trying to become a multibillionaire from my app; I was just hoping to make an app to impress my friends.
So, I choose the sdk that (I thought) best suited my needs. GameSalad advertises itself to be simple, easy to use, (both of which are true) and FREE software. Here is what appears underneath the GameSalad link when I Googled "what is gamesalad":
"GameSalad is the world's fastest game design engine. Learn to make and publish hit games for free on iPhone, iPad, Android & HTML5. No coding required."
That is what angers me. It's NOT free to publish to iOS OR Android (I just checked the "Go Pro" page on gamesalad.com, Android publishing requires Pro). iOS is not free, even when excluding the iOS Developer Account, which I already bought, and that was difficult enough.
Besides the glitches and corrupted files, the GameSalad UI is actually very simple and easy to use. However, I can't stand being misled and spending over a third of my summer on a game, supposedly free to publish, (minus the $99 dev account) only to learn I have to pay $299 MORE to put it on the App Store.
I don't care if GameSalad won't let you publish your game without a Pro membership; they created a genius software and deserve to get rewarded. But they least they could do is put some sort of disclaimer on their homepage, send an email to GameSalad members, do SOMETHING to let us know about that not-so-trivial fact.
Thanks for your time,
Inflatus Games
dgackeyAustin, TXInactive, PRO, Chef EmeritusPosts: 699
@InflatusGames I wasn't aware of that Google result as I've been with the company for almost a year and Android hasn't been on the free tier for as long as I've been here, but it's still a fair point and I will look into that.
Obviously we have no control over what Apple charge, but the intention of our statement that it's free to publish to iOS with GameSalad is that WE do not charge you to publish there, but again, you raise a good point that some people new to mobile development may not know that Apple's developer license is non-negotiable and wholly at Apple's discretion.
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
@dgackey I know Apple's developer policy is completely out of your control and I do believe it is correct to say that GameSalad lets you publish games on iOS for free. It is relatively widely known that you need an Apple developer licence in order to publish on iOS, and those cost
However, Apple's new policy of no third-party ads (I'm not sure if that's correct, would you mind clarifying what Apple's new policy actually is for me?) is not widely known. I'm not angry about the fact that the Apple developer license costs money, rather that I never found out about Apple's new policy which, according to people in this thread, has existed for the past five or so weeks.
dgackeyAustin, TXInactive, PRO, Chef EmeritusPosts: 699
@InflatusGames it's not a policy about third party ads at all. In this case, it's just that they began rejecting apps that they previously had no issue with, and in GameSalad's case it's because of the way our "GameSalad Network" banner ads were implemented.
(Apple felt they looked like a simulated home screen and they are cracking down on apps that attempt to "trick" users into clicking things, apparently). GSN is an older component of our ad services and was originally designed to help our users advertise their games across the entirety of the GameSalad user base, and there are thousands of games out there with GSN banners in them that Apple has never had any issue with.
Unfortunately, this is just the way it works in a rapidly changing ecosystem that is tightly controlled by the platform holder. iOS8 will be another source of great change and everyone will have to adapt or be left behind.
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
Comments
Wait, can't you publish an app without becoming Pro?
But are not warning new users (or existing users). That's the issue. It's been over 5 weeks since they were first made aware of the problem.
Currently, no. But as far as we know GameSalad intend to address this issue as soon as possible. They want you to be able to, but right now the ads they insert into games made with the free version of the creator will likely result in Apple rejecting your game.
I do want to take this moment to re-clarify that I don't actually care that much about the free/pro debate, my reason for getting involved in this thread was my dislike of the attitude of many of those posting, not to rally against GameSalad in any way.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
How long will it take them to fix this?
Your guess is as good as anyone else's.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Because there is a sticky thread that advises users to search. Yes GS does a poor job of communicating and should be taken to task over it.
I have had no trouble finding out about it. I still agree GS are terrible at communication.
I can't see how you got childish out of my post so I'll take that as a comment on others.
A lot of the games are still getting approved it is a bit hit and miss which must make it very frustrating for GS. So they are getting something out of it how much I don't know I am not privy to GS's financial records.
You don't know that you are assuming it. It will contribute to their bottom line again I don't know how much but clearly they think it is worth it. If it brings in new users who turn pro then it contributes to their bottom line.
I am not against people right to complain but I am totally against the way @InflatusGames made his complaint. He went the wrong way about it and is being called out for it.
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What do you mean? Unless you mean threatening you with a temporary ban. That's a possibility with your insistence of attacking "the monster collective Mod" at every opportunity.
You're stoking again as well as underlining your personal attack. I'd advise you to leave that there.
"Oh please do explain" - grow up, will you. And I'm digging no hole - you are. Please read my previous response to you again and you'll find there are no insults. Please stop inciting in the Forums.
Back to the discussion in hand.
""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps
I expect these issues will always happen, there might well be a 2 month period where GS games are incompatible with iOS 9 and a few weeks in 2018 were the new iPadX breaks any GS project that uses the accelerometer, as well as policy changes in submission, advertising, content (and all the rest), coupe that with all the usual bugs you get in a complex - ever changing - software and hardware ecoystem and GameSalad would be constantly warning us about all sorts of stuff. I'm no developer of SDK software but in my limited experience 5 weeks to resolve something like this doesn't seem unreasonable.
I can't copy and paste on the forums today for some reason so I can't quote you @colander, so please forgive the disorganised response.
Many new users will not even know the forums exist. It is not a requirement for using GameSalad that you visit the forums. It is utterly unrealistic that new users be expected to find vital information by searching the forums - particularly when they do not even know there is a problem. You found out about it because you read the forums. Only a % of the GameSalad userbase do that.
I wasn't referring to your post specifically as childish.
I would be very interested to see stats on what % actually are getting rejected. But that's information we'll never get to see, and nor will GameSalad.
The adverts GameSalad show are for other GameSalad games (unless it got changed, I don't know). As far as I know they are not paid for those adverts. They are essentially advertising their own product. They make their money from the paid version. I'd be very surprised if they make any actual money from the free version. Loss-leaders are very common business practice, particularly in software.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
@Socks - and that makes it okay to belittle people on the forums? That's what my complaint here is about.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Egg Zachary
And a lot of you went the wrong way about responding and are being called out for that...
(And I perhaps went the wrong way about responding to your responses and got called out for that too...)
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
I think the OP set the tone in his initial post.
@CodeCell man you are just begging to be banned. Why do you make everything personal?
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See my previous example posted elsewhere. I find it very discouraging if that is the accepted attitude of the community. "You were pissed off and frustrated and posted an angry post but since the tone was negative we get to mock you now."
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
You are reading a lot into my posts.
Really. When you are pointed out for doing a wrong so your going to ban someone. Maybe its not me who needs to "grow up".
My issue isn't at mods only. I5s at everyone who decided to poke fun at someone who only just started to use the forums. Thats were the insults are towards. Not to at me.
You weren't the only one to take a jab a new member. But your a mod. It really shows the disrespectful attitude is everywhere. You were caught out and are trying to shift the blame on to people like me who actually stand up against this.
Really. Your going to say I am the one making it personal. I don't recal me making insults to the thread starter. People in general need to stop thinking your in control and your nasty comments are needed. They are not?
Oh its early morning here. Thanks for pointing it out. (It actually woke me up). Clearly I didn't know my post were going to be taken that way.
OP posted a frustrated rant. Numerous people posted responses ranging from unsympathetic to outright insulting. I argued this was not acceptable behaviour, especially since his core complaint was valid.
You said he set the tone with his original post. I responded that if a poor initial tone is excuse for disparaging responses, it makes me sad.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
I think GameSalad (company) needs to work on their communication with members and they need to establish a relationship with someone at Apple.
As I said earlier @Armelline - you can't blame GS for the fact Apple are control freaks. And this kind of thing isn't resolved over night. The change also has an impact on a revenue stream for GS and those using it.
And GS does what it says on the tin. It IS free to publish. It STATES they will place advertising. The OP clearly didn't bother to read the pricing table and just assumed before coming on here and venting like a wet fart.
One of the reasons why I don't publish on Apple is because they are arses. Dictate what you can and can't do then take away a revenue stream from the smaller players. Clearly, they are now just focusing on the triple A studios and making as much money as they can from them.
Apple has forgotten its roots that the indie developer helped shape and drive its crappy iphone and app market and the reward is a kick in the balls.
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Firstly, apologies to @InflatusGames and the other members discussing this thread's issues - the reason for saying that, I'm going to continue this unfortunate thread diversion just one more time. And after, hopefully we can all get back to discussing the important issue raised.
@CodeCell
You just don't get it. I wasn't mentioning banning you temporarily because you are pointing out something I did wrong (although the amount of times you've been mentioning it is something different).
I was mentioning the thought which crossed my mind (see later, at the end of the post) that you deserve a temporary ban because of your general & personal attack(s), mainly in the past anyone who is a mod, myself today.
Also your insistence not to heed warnings about stopping unhelpful posts, and making stirring-up comments in those posts, when it was more than about time we all should have moved on and started to discuss the actual problems given.
Case in point here: "When you are pointed out for doing a wrong" - this "wrong" was a misjudgement made by me, explained as to the original reason I posted the video, and repaired by removal of it. Even after that, you have taken it upon yourself to "pick at it like a scab until it bleeds".
Mentioning the possibility of temporarily banning someone doesn't necessarily mean that a moderator saying that needs to grow up either.
I'll point out your issue has been with Mods as a collective, or as individuals, in some of your past posts, attacking them as if mods are a type of enemy. And now your issue has been with me in particular here in this thread - you just won't leave it alone. And as unhelpful as the negative remarks were made by some other members, that was done, and was simply time to move on after a "wake-up" call by another member here (albeit understandable annoyance over-ramped up too much). But then it was obvious you wanted to keep on "ramping", seemingly wanting to start some sort of "witch hunt". (Well, that's over the top - cause trouble, at least.)
It doesn't show "there's a disrespectful attitude everywhere" - it shows that a member who happens to be a mod can make a bad call/mistake/lack of judgement, etc just like any other member might; and also shows that you are not willing to let it go or accept the explanation, and one who is purposefully raking the ashes of this to keep it burning, when it should have been put behind us a while ago, especially after I recommended "you leave it there" or similar in an earlier post.
I didn't intentionally set out to insult anyone, full stop. I posted a video with the intention of lightening a situation which I foresaw could have gotten out of control, which was perceived to be insulting by you and another member that I know of. And you did make it personal (with regards to me) no doubt about it.
Even after my explanation of why I posted that comical video and even after I removed it, you've been barking at me from that point on.
I've wasted a good half an hour or more replying to your post - also I've continued this thread with another diversion which shouldn't have been necessary.
Finally, to round things up, I am going to make a decision that your problem stirring, and "attacks" on me ('keeping the pot boiling") as well as other members, Mods or not, past and present, including your refusal to let this particular aspect go) has gone on enough, so you've a temporary ban from the GSC Forums for a month.
A polite piece of advice - when you are allowed to post again in the Forums, best not to single out members whether or not they are Moderators and keep on "rattling cages" or showing sarcasm even after people's polite and sincere explanations of their particular "wrongs". Maybe try starting some helpful threads, or positive help to other members asking questions... just a thought.
OK, for about the third time i've said this, back to the issues relevant to the original poster's words.
""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps
You are still missing the point (or not actually reading my posts) - GameSalad know there is this issue and are not informing their users. All that's needed is a banner on the download page or pricing page saying something like "We are aware of an issue causing some games made with the free creator to be rejected and are working to fix it asap".
But right now the pricing page is wrong. You cannot publish to iOS with the free version of the creator (not reliably at least). Is that GameSalad's fault? Not entirely. Are they working to fix it? We can only assume so.
But that doesn't change the fact that they are claiming their product can do something it can not and/or not doing enough to notify users of the problem and that it is only temporary.
We see several threads about this issue a day on average. The confusion is real. Saying they need to read the pricing page doesn't help avoid that confusion.
And throwing more insults at the thread starter is really helping.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
You're totally wrong @Armelline - gamesalad are not misleading anyone. Sure they have a bug, but in the world of software that happens. However, if the OP cant read clearly that GS puts their own adverts in the free version, then its their fault for not checking properly.
Taking responsibility for your own actions in todays world is a rare trait, as its much easier to blame someone else/company because person X was too lazy to check up first.
Im not going to defend their communication, is it poor but they are coders and coders are not the worlds best communicators.
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@jigglybean
I guess we see it differently. When I'm told I can publish to iOS I expect to be able to do so. If there's a bug that makes this impossible, I expect to be informed of that (without having to search through hundreds of forum threads and posts in a forum I don't necessarily even know exists). I don't think it's unreasonable for people to feel burned under these circumstances.
And that's before even getting into how easy it would be to temporarily avoid this problem by turning off the ads in the free version until they have a fix in place.
This isn't a complaint about GameSalad. It's a request for more tolerance of those finding themselves on the bad end of this mess.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
More tolerance could be requested on both parts of any argument or disagreement usually.
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ok, back on track (and civil) or i'll close this
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Well, that escalated quickly!
A couple of points, here, folks.
1) As was pointed out in this thread, we did make the decision to implement interstitial ads into apps published with the free version of GS, and I personally updated the Creator page on GS.com to reflect that fact. Supporting hundreds of thousands of free accounts and apps is not a trivial matter, in terms of manpower or expense. Inserting ads is a way for us to recoup a tiny fraction of those costs, and we feel it's a reasonable tradeoff.
This has been the case for a while now and we have had thousands of free games go through with no problems. Only recently did Apple's certification policies change, triggering this new round of rejections for our users.
2) The (at the time) sudden influx of tickets about rejection due to ad networks was, as mention here, a result of Apple changing their policies, and as I have stated repeatedly, we do not get any special consideration or advance notice from Apple on this stuff.
They won't even allow us to work with support engineers who get tickets from you guys, so we can't respond to these kinds of situations unless we experience the exact same issue. Consequently, the only way for us to isolate the root cause of many of these issues is to build our own apps that recreate similar conditions and submit them, hoping for failure so we can open a dialogue with them.
3) In the case of this particular issue, we had already pushed a publishing fix out for this issue that resolves the issue for any new publishes, but a fix that would resolve the issue for users who had already published and been rejected had not yet gone live, and we didn't realize it. That has been resolved and that fix has been pushed.
4) Just to be safe, any users of GameSalad FREE who have been rejected by Apple for ad issues should re-publish their apps and re-submit to Apple. You do not need a new Creator download, just re-publish.
5) This should go without saying, but apparently I need to stress this, so here goes: there was no ulterior motive or devious attempt to trick prospective customers here. Apple changed their rules, we isolated the issue and (thought) we addressed it, but we didn't catch everyone, and didn't realize it until just now.
6) With that said, another theme I am always repeating and will continue to repeat is that resources are limited. We are a small company and have a lot of ground to cover. We are maintaining and improving a tool that essentially supports almost the entire mobile ecosystem, and we're doing it with less than 20 people. On top of that, the ecosystem is constantly changing. So yes, it does take us longer to address issues than we'd like sometimes, and we are always looking to improve our efficiency, but this is the current reality.
We will continue to strive to serve every customer to the best of our ability and appreciate your business and support.
Thanks,
Dan
tl:dr; YES, you can publish free to iOS just like before. YES, we put ads in to try and recoup some of our expenses. YES, you need to republish if you've been hit with an Apple rejection. And YES, we are sorry it took us so long to get to the bottom of it and address it.
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
Perfectly understandable situation really, but one thing is for sure. The public facing bug database should provide a lot of transparency on issues like this, and prevent threads like this from escalating. Hope to see it soon!
Hello again, GameSalad Forums.
I didn't realize my post would start a war on the GS Forums. I didn't want it to, for that matter. I was just angry and frustrated that I spent well over a month and a half of work on my game only to learn it would be rejected.
That post I made was me venting my frustration, as I had received the status from iTunes Connect only minutes before. I had little time for rational thought, and, as such, my words probably sounded angry, hateful, and even entitled (not sure how that connection was made, but it was).
The purpose of this thread was not to rant against GameSalad (though I still have permanent negative feelings for it after this experience). I merely wanted to inform, and at the same time warn, potential new GS users of the, for lack of a better word, complications that GameSalad never warned me of.
I'm sorry that I didn't search through every thread on GameSalad to learn about a new Apple policy change that I had no clue existed (last night was my first time on the GameSalad forums). I'm sorry I didn't look at the differences between GameSalad Free and GameSalad Pro; I had and still don't have any intention of buying GameSalad Pro. I'm sorry that I didn't read the "pricing table" that "STATES they will place advertising." I'm sorry that "The OP clearly didn't bother to read the pricing table and just assumed before coming on here and venting like a wet fart."
One can't expect new members, such as myself, to know what to do and where to go to find out about changes in policy and similar happenings. To tell you the truth, I didn't know the forums EXISTED until a few days ago. GameSalad needs better communication with it's members, and that is why I created this thread.
I'm only fourteen years old. $300 IS a lot of money. I was hoping to make a simple game that would (hopefully) make back that $99 Developer account (and a little more) to motivate me as I learned the actual code to make better apps. I was not looking to make the next Flappy Bird; I was not trying to become a multibillionaire from my app; I was just hoping to make an app to impress my friends.
So, I choose the sdk that (I thought) best suited my needs. GameSalad advertises itself to be simple, easy to use, (both of which are true) and FREE software. Here is what appears underneath the GameSalad link when I Googled "what is gamesalad":
"GameSalad is the world's fastest game design engine. Learn to make and publish hit games for free on iPhone, iPad, Android & HTML5. No coding required."
That is what angers me. It's NOT free to publish to iOS OR Android (I just checked the "Go Pro" page on gamesalad.com, Android publishing requires Pro). iOS is not free, even when excluding the iOS Developer Account, which I already bought, and that was difficult enough.
Besides the glitches and corrupted files, the GameSalad UI is actually very simple and easy to use. However, I can't stand being misled and spending over a third of my summer on a game, supposedly free to publish, (minus the $99 dev account) only to learn I have to pay $299 MORE to put it on the App Store.
I don't care if GameSalad won't let you publish your game without a Pro membership; they created a genius software and deserve to get rewarded. But they least they could do is put some sort of disclaimer on their homepage, send an email to GameSalad members, do SOMETHING to let us know about that not-so-trivial fact.
Thanks for your time,
Inflatus Games
@InflatusGames I wasn't aware of that Google result as I've been with the company for almost a year and Android hasn't been on the free tier for as long as I've been here, but it's still a fair point and I will look into that.
Obviously we have no control over what Apple charge, but the intention of our statement that it's free to publish to iOS with GameSalad is that WE do not charge you to publish there, but again, you raise a good point that some people new to mobile development may not know that Apple's developer license is non-negotiable and wholly at Apple's discretion.
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
@dgackey I know Apple's developer policy is completely out of your control and I do believe it is correct to say that GameSalad lets you publish games on iOS for free. It is relatively widely known that you need an Apple developer licence in order to publish on iOS, and those cost
However, Apple's new policy of no third-party ads (I'm not sure if that's correct, would you mind clarifying what Apple's new policy actually is for me?) is not widely known. I'm not angry about the fact that the Apple developer license costs money, rather that I never found out about Apple's new policy which, according to people in this thread, has existed for the past five or so weeks.
@InflatusGames it's not a policy about third party ads at all. In this case, it's just that they began rejecting apps that they previously had no issue with, and in GameSalad's case it's because of the way our "GameSalad Network" banner ads were implemented.
(Apple felt they looked like a simulated home screen and they are cracking down on apps that attempt to "trick" users into clicking things, apparently). GSN is an older component of our ad services and was originally designed to help our users advertise their games across the entirety of the GameSalad user base, and there are thousands of games out there with GSN banners in them that Apple has never had any issue with.
Unfortunately, this is just the way it works in a rapidly changing ecosystem that is tightly controlled by the platform holder. iOS8 will be another source of great change and everyone will have to adapt or be left behind.
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com