@JDuaneJ said:
tenrdrmer Armelline Jeromy lycettebros Until this crap happens to you, you will never understand the frustration of dealing with QA personnel who don't pay attention to original support tickets. If you do understand, then ranting about another Flappy clone is wasted breath (keyboard wear)
Well for my part I was being sympathetic to @jigglybean's QA troubles, but couldn't help but disagree with his argument regarding clones. That was the only part of the thread I was responding to. I sympathise with the QA issues, but not so much the core reason they're occurring.
@lycettebros said:
JDuaneJ I think if people are going to post on the forum they are going to be prepared for questions to be asked and alternative viewpoints. I know I am.
[Hey maybe someone needs to start a sympathy thread where you can only agree with a person and sympathise with their current frustration] [sorry total sarcastic response please forgive me]
I don't think anyone is trying to 'poor salt on the wound', I think they are trying to posit logical responses to why he is feeling the pain.
You are right we are all Pros. Pros know how to deal with rejection and injustice. They find solutions or make changes or compromise and jigglybean has done that. I as a Pro may not react in the same way - in fact I definitely would not react the way he has and I am very comfortable to say why.
I believe my expression is advice and support. It may not be welcome or accepted - fair enough, he can reject it as he has.
I will also attempt to lighten the vibe when people get tetchy cos it really 'aint that big a deal in the context of life.
I may not agree with him or you but I wish him luck with his plans as I do you
BTW this crap has happened to me before not with Amazon but with Apple.
This is why I have stopped posting on the forum. If a comment is not 100% supportive, even if it is truthful and accurate and solid advice. one gets labeled as, mean and uncaring when most times it's the opposite. If you care you don't lie to someone or appease them because ultimately reality will find them out and that's not advice that's called avoidance. I grew up in a different time. When we lost a game, we lost and everyone didn't get a trophy. We were taught life is hard and not fair and when you lose, work harder to get better and learn to adapt to the fluxuations of life. I guess I'm a man out of time.
The one thing that annoys me, is having to explain the same stuff over and over because people either can't read or are just too lazy to.
Comments from people such as Lycettebros and a couple of others miss the point totally - which just draws away from the core of the issue. The issue was/is not about cloning but Amazon and how they just change their mind every couple of emails.
Had I uploaded an out right clone of flappy bird then Amazon would have said 'no way' and I would be fine with that.
But I hadn't. And the point is this. Amazon TOLD me what to put in the description of my game, so I did. Then the next day, someone else TOLD me to to remove it. So I refused because it was the 2nd change and release deadline was looming(they had 8 days to sort this out).
As others have pointed out, there's lots of flappy X on the Amazon store but this time around they decided to kick me in the nuts and because I refused, they just rejected my game.
Even went I emailed them with my reasons why I am pulling my apps, they STILL didn't read it. Frankly, I don't deal with companies that have stupidity at its foundation, which is a shame as I have enjoyed good sales on Amazon but I would rather work with professionals instead of clowns
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I guess the real point is it's Amazon's company and their store and they can do with it what they wish. It's called free enterprise. They have every right to promote who they want and who they don't. They are under no obligation to accept any app. This is true for any business. They get to choose what products they put on their shelves. Even in retail stores vendors pay for Better spots on a shelf. This is just a reality of business. The fact their clamping down on flappy clones should be of no surprise as, Amazon,Apple and Google publicly stated a month ago they were going to turn away flappy type clones from their stores. But the bottom line is it's their store and they can do what they want. When you own a store you can do what you want. This is life. One must adapt to survive.
Yeah, it's one of the biggest frustrations of modern life, that with all this technology, being able to communicate with an actual person seems impossible.
I'm not the biggest fan of Apple, but at least they have a resolution center, where you can put your point across and they put theirs and all the correspondence is there in one place.
You seem to be a victim of different people with different agendas dealing with your case with no communication between them.
It is very frustrating!
And as far as the Flappy clone argument goes, I personally haven't released one because I am trying to build a reputation as a serious developer.
But as far as I'm concerned, the original dev pulled his version and the demand for these games is there. It's just servicing a demand, that's what business is all about.
I don't think I missed the point at all. Amazon rejected your app because they can and you're not happy they did. You think they were hypocrites, which maybe they are but that is their right to be. Personally I think it's a short sighted business decision to pull all your apps off. As a business you should have the long term in mind and long term the only person this hurts is you. Best advice get over the unfairness and move on to the next game and the next. Some battles we win others we lose. But in the end to survive in this highly competitive environment is to keep moving forward.
Plenty of the recent generation have the same attitude and are taught the same thing - plenty of us still have no choice but to fight to survive, accept defeats and move on. That's just life for a lot of people - not something specific to a bygone time.
The 'we had it harder back in my day.' mantra Is repeated by every generation.
You do miss the point. I can't simplify it any more.
Amazon tell me one thing, then change their mind. Thats the bottom line. Unprofessional bunch of muppets and as I said above, I would rather work with stores that know what they are doing and have a CLEAR policy on IP protection(which is what this falls under).
And you just need to look on Amazons store to see Mario,Yoshi,Sonic etc all being used by small time developers and their games have nothing to do with either. Double standards from a clueless company.
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@jigglybean That "clueless" company made $75 Billion last year.. If your trying to make some kind of profound statement by pulling your games from their store, they don't care. If Supercell pulled their games then that would be a statement. But a game salad indie complaining about how a clone didn't get accepted... come on..
Yeah I know. But for me its a matter of principles. I am just waiting for their reply tomorrow and then hopefully everything won't be on there. And, you never know who could be the next big thing so they should be treating everyone fairly.
Mr Flappy Bird himself was shat on by the gaming media then look what happened.
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The thread that just wont go away. Congratulations Jiggly on such a juicy thread. You've kept your calm and done your best to keep this on topic, when a stack of others wanted to steer it in another direction. I just don't understand why so many of them want to side with the Corporate Mega instead of one of their own. Talk about kicking someone when they're down.
I do not think anyone has been 'kicking' anyone. Jiggly has argued his point and has valid concerns with Amazon and its practices. A few people offer their alternate views, quite calmly. Seems like a fair, open discussion to me.
For the most part people are resisting the urge to personalise the discussion.
From what I read (between the lines) many have said. "You made a flappy game so you don't deserve any rights - nobody should ever make a flappy style game ever again." That is the kicking part. What we should've been saying is yes Amazon are two faced based on the evidence shown. The game style should not've been brought into the argument. It's an argument about Amazon saying one thing then doing another.
I agree that Amazon's communication is poor. And in this case it is two faced or let's say ignorant. No argument there. I sympathise with anyone caught in that **** sandwich.
I also say that if you were not submitting a cloned game you are less likely to have confusion from reviewers and getting such responses. I am not trying to convey anything other than that. No kicking, no aggression just a calm opinion.
I will withdraw as I do not think I can say anymore but I say good luck to Jiggly and anyone else caught in corporate SNAFUs like this. Your response is your own but I would choose to do it differently.
@jonmulcahy probably. I don't publish on Apple mostly down to the fact a) don't own a Mac b) Dont have an iphone/pad.
Hopefully, this may get resolved by tomorrow morning(time zone differences). Amazon have reached out with 'concern' over my issues. I've basically asked for a guarantee that they will improve how they communication and ensure that those who test/look after IP look at any related feedback, communications from developers.
Amazon are the new kids on the block and there will be teething problems and as others have mentioned, its not until you have issues, you discover just how painful basic communication can be.
They need to introduce a ticket system for both parties to use and reply in and like Google Play does, have a space for developers to reply back to reviews - which is just an awesome feature there.
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Not quite the say issue. But still on amazon communication. I bought a kindle fire hdx and had so many issue setting it up ans being able to download apps. I was chatting and being emailed by many people helping to resolve my issue. I am guessing they should learn from this. But I wouldnt know what they are like with developers.
@Jeromy - their customer service is second to none imo. I've been a customer of Amazon for years and virtually buy everything from Amazon. Been a Prime customer since 2009.
Which is why I find all this kind of shocking but thats life. Hopefully they will wake up and get this resolved.
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Thank you for your inquiry. After further investigation of the app in question, we have decided to reverse our decision and request you resubmit the application for additional testing.
Title Formerly Rejected: Flappy Friends
Best regards, Amazon Apps Team
Happy that Amazon decided to use their noodle. And for those of you who think that the little guy doesnt matter - You just dont know until you try. #nevergiveup
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I basically demanded clarity on their policy and if they couldn't provide such, to remove all my apps from the store by Monday. I also pointed them to many examples of other published apps that were ok but mine wasnt.
In addition, I had previous emails mentioning what I said in my original post. Although my app is ok to be re submitted, I am still going to push for better communication between developers and Amazon.
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Thanks Jiggly, You've done a good job there. You've inspired me to write a letter now. Although I think the damage is done for me in terms of losing the exposure I was getting being in the top 10. I'll try to get mine back online though.
And there was me thinking it was all resolved. The app was rejected again today lol for the same reason. I am going to try and reach out to someone at Amazon today to get this resolved for everyone because it is just annoying
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Comments
Well for my part I was being sympathetic to @jigglybean's QA troubles, but couldn't help but disagree with his argument regarding clones. That was the only part of the thread I was responding to. I sympathise with the QA issues, but not so much the core reason they're occurring.
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This is why I have stopped posting on the forum. If a comment is not 100% supportive, even if it is truthful and accurate and solid advice. one gets labeled as, mean and uncaring when most times it's the opposite. If you care you don't lie to someone or appease them because ultimately reality will find them out and that's not advice that's called avoidance. I grew up in a different time. When we lost a game, we lost and everyone didn't get a trophy. We were taught life is hard and not fair and when you lose, work harder to get better and learn to adapt to the fluxuations of life. I guess I'm a man out of time.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
The one thing that annoys me, is having to explain the same stuff over and over because people either can't read or are just too lazy to.
Comments from people such as Lycettebros and a couple of others miss the point totally - which just draws away from the core of the issue. The issue was/is not about cloning but Amazon and how they just change their mind every couple of emails.
Had I uploaded an out right clone of flappy bird then Amazon would have said 'no way' and I would be fine with that.
But I hadn't. And the point is this. Amazon TOLD me what to put in the description of my game, so I did. Then the next day, someone else TOLD me to to remove it. So I refused because it was the 2nd change and release deadline was looming(they had 8 days to sort this out).
As others have pointed out, there's lots of flappy X on the Amazon store but this time around they decided to kick me in the nuts and because I refused, they just rejected my game.
Even went I emailed them with my reasons why I am pulling my apps, they STILL didn't read it. Frankly, I don't deal with companies that have stupidity at its foundation, which is a shame as I have enjoyed good sales on Amazon but I would rather work with professionals instead of clowns
Like Balls? Then click here! We've 100 coming soon
I guess the real point is it's Amazon's company and their store and they can do with it what they wish. It's called free enterprise. They have every right to promote who they want and who they don't. They are under no obligation to accept any app. This is true for any business. They get to choose what products they put on their shelves. Even in retail stores vendors pay for Better spots on a shelf. This is just a reality of business. The fact their clamping down on flappy clones should be of no surprise as, Amazon,Apple and Google publicly stated a month ago they were going to turn away flappy type clones from their stores. But the bottom line is it's their store and they can do what they want. When you own a store you can do what you want. This is life. One must adapt to survive.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
@jigglybean,
Yeah, it's one of the biggest frustrations of modern life, that with all this technology, being able to communicate with an actual person seems impossible.
I'm not the biggest fan of Apple, but at least they have a resolution center, where you can put your point across and they put theirs and all the correspondence is there in one place.
You seem to be a victim of different people with different agendas dealing with your case with no communication between them.
It is very frustrating!
And as far as the Flappy clone argument goes, I personally haven't released one because I am trying to build a reputation as a serious developer.
But as far as I'm concerned, the original dev pulled his version and the demand for these games is there. It's just servicing a demand, that's what business is all about.
It’s not a bug – it’s an undocumented feature
@Guru you're missing the point totally and frankly, I am bang out of steam to repeat myself.
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I don't think I missed the point at all. Amazon rejected your app because they can and you're not happy they did. You think they were hypocrites, which maybe they are but that is their right to be. Personally I think it's a short sighted business decision to pull all your apps off. As a business you should have the long term in mind and long term the only person this hurts is you. Best advice get over the unfairness and move on to the next game and the next. Some battles we win others we lose. But in the end to survive in this highly competitive environment is to keep moving forward.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
Plenty of the recent generation have the same attitude and are taught the same thing - plenty of us still have no choice but to fight to survive, accept defeats and move on. That's just life for a lot of people - not something specific to a bygone time.
The 'we had it harder back in my day.' mantra Is repeated by every generation.
You do miss the point. I can't simplify it any more.
Amazon tell me one thing, then change their mind. Thats the bottom line. Unprofessional bunch of muppets and as I said above, I would rather work with stores that know what they are doing and have a CLEAR policy on IP protection(which is what this falls under).
And you just need to look on Amazons store to see Mario,Yoshi,Sonic etc all being used by small time developers and their games have nothing to do with either. Double standards from a clueless company.
Like Balls? Then click here! We've 100 coming soon
@jigglybean That "clueless" company made $75 Billion last year.. If your trying to make some kind of profound statement by pulling your games from their store, they don't care. If Supercell pulled their games then that would be a statement. But a game salad indie complaining about how a clone didn't get accepted... come on..
Yeah I know. But for me its a matter of principles. I am just waiting for their reply tomorrow and then hopefully everything won't be on there. And, you never know who could be the next big thing so they should be treating everyone fairly.
Mr Flappy Bird himself was shat on by the gaming media then look what happened.
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A thing is...
Amazon is a good store, we can make a lot of money there.
The most annoying thing we have to deal is reviews.
Each time one different reviewer pick-up our game.
Sometimes it's fine, sometimes it's not.
But, if you are making money with them... keep trying to make
your game online.
Amazon will never miss you if you leave them.
But you will miss the money!
We need to think I WILL BATTLE UNTIL THE END
Each time we submit an app for approve.
The thread that just wont go away. Congratulations Jiggly on such a juicy thread. You've kept your calm and done your best to keep this on topic, when a stack of others wanted to steer it in another direction. I just don't understand why so many of them want to side with the Corporate Mega instead of one of their own. Talk about kicking someone when they're down.
I do not think anyone has been 'kicking' anyone. Jiggly has argued his point and has valid concerns with Amazon and its practices. A few people offer their alternate views, quite calmly. Seems like a fair, open discussion to me.
For the most part people are resisting the urge to personalise the discussion.
From what I read (between the lines) many have said. "You made a flappy game so you don't deserve any rights - nobody should ever make a flappy style game ever again." That is the kicking part. What we should've been saying is yes Amazon are two faced based on the evidence shown. The game style should not've been brought into the argument. It's an argument about Amazon saying one thing then doing another.
I agree that Amazon's communication is poor. And in this case it is two faced or let's say ignorant. No argument there. I sympathise with anyone caught in that **** sandwich.
I also say that if you were not submitting a cloned game you are less likely to have confusion from reviewers and getting such responses. I am not trying to convey anything other than that. No kicking, no aggression just a calm opinion.
I will withdraw as I do not think I can say anymore but I say good luck to Jiggly and anyone else caught in corporate SNAFUs like this. Your response is your own but I would choose to do it differently.
I can promise you that other people have had the EXACT same problem with apple.
it sucks but you move on.
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You guys wear me out...
Just close the thread already, no one is paying attention to the original post.
@jonmulcahy probably. I don't publish on Apple mostly down to the fact a) don't own a Mac b) Dont have an iphone/pad.
Hopefully, this may get resolved by tomorrow morning(time zone differences). Amazon have reached out with 'concern' over my issues. I've basically asked for a guarantee that they will improve how they communication and ensure that those who test/look after IP look at any related feedback, communications from developers.
Amazon are the new kids on the block and there will be teething problems and as others have mentioned, its not until you have issues, you discover just how painful basic communication can be.
They need to introduce a ticket system for both parties to use and reply in and like Google Play does, have a space for developers to reply back to reviews - which is just an awesome feature there.
Like Balls? Then click here! We've 100 coming soon
Not quite the say issue. But still on amazon communication. I bought a kindle fire hdx and had so many issue setting it up ans being able to download apps. I was chatting and being emailed by many people helping to resolve my issue. I am guessing they should learn from this. But I wouldnt know what they are like with developers.
@Jeromy - their customer service is second to none imo. I've been a customer of Amazon for years and virtually buy everything from Amazon. Been a Prime customer since 2009.
Which is why I find all this kind of shocking but thats life. Hopefully they will wake up and get this resolved.
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Just an update -
Just had this email from Amazon
Dear George,
Thank you for your inquiry. After further investigation of the app in question, we have decided to reverse our decision and request you resubmit the application for additional testing.
Title Formerly Rejected: Flappy Friends
Best regards, Amazon Apps Team
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awesome, I'm glad they reversed their decision
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@jigglybean Congratulations your persistence paid off!
@jigglybean
I don't have that problem (yet), but what would be your advice to people that do? What did you tell them that got you that response?
Thanks
Chakku
I basically demanded clarity on their policy and if they couldn't provide such, to remove all my apps from the store by Monday. I also pointed them to many examples of other published apps that were ok but mine wasnt.
In addition, I had previous emails mentioning what I said in my original post. Although my app is ok to be re submitted, I am still going to push for better communication between developers and Amazon.
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Thanks Jiggly, You've done a good job there. You've inspired me to write a letter now. Although I think the damage is done for me in terms of losing the exposure I was getting being in the top 10. I'll try to get mine back online though.
And there was me thinking it was all resolved. The app was rejected again today lol for the same reason. I am going to try and reach out to someone at Amazon today to get this resolved for everyone because it is just annoying
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Can you share some screenshots of your game jiggly bean? I'd like to see what they are rejecting.
Its just the description and using the word 'flappy bird'. Game is called Tap the Birds. Its already on google play
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