@Dizko - I think he's referring to becoming an Xbox Live developer - which does require a massive investment and further requires the purchase of Microsoft dev kits that cost several thousand dollars apiece.
Indie developers, however, are as you indicated - pay the $99 a year. I just had a friend put their game, Crystal Hunters, on XBLA recently.
To clarify, XNA is a Window's environment requirement...so not a real indication of further development plans either way.
So what are you guys using XNA for then? Is that what you're using/going to use to compile native Windows games? I guess I'm a little confused on where XNA is coming into play here, unless you are using it to build the Windows GS. (not trying to be mean, I'm just genuinely curious)
Just to put it out there, being able to publish games to XBL Arcade would be a pretty rad selling point.
I don't know where @JohnPapiomitis gets his information from, but it doesn't cost tens of thousands of dollars to get your game on XBL Arcade. There's a program for indie devs that's gets you on the Windows Mobile and XBL Arcade for $99/year. It wouldn't surprise me if that's where GS is going with this.
I would question GS if they developed the GS Windows creator in XNA, that would just be odd.
My information is correct. What your referring to is xbox 360 arcade indie. Which is diffent then xbox 360 live arcade, which is what i am reffering to and what he mentioned in his comment.
I don't know where @JohnPapiomitis gets his information from, but it doesn't cost tens of thousands of dollars to get your game on XBL Arcade. There's a program for indie devs that's gets you on the Windows Mobile and XBL Arcade for $99/year. It wouldn't surprise me if that's where GS is going with this.
I would question GS if they developed the GS Windows creator in XNA, that would just be odd.
My information is correct. What your referring to is xbox 360 arcade indie. Which is diffent then xbox 360 live arcade, which is what i am reffering to and what he mentioned in his comment.
While accurate it's misleading, you made it seem like the only way to get a game on 360 is through the normal developer channel. I highly doubt anyone here would be in a position do that anyway and the indie channel is a perfectly viable option.
It matters not because SSS already stated that they're not using XNA for anything. They must be including it for some not-yet-mentioned feature, the possibilities are interesting if not exciting.
As for the UI: been using it a bit more today and I think it looks a lot better than before and better organized. Although I think it's a tad bit too winform-ish for my tastes, but I could get over that.
I think the mac-UI is not very bad. The only thing that is really important to change is when you go to the layers tab and double-click an actor, then clicking the back button the layers tab isn't open anymore. That must be changed quick, because when the layers tab stays open if you double click an actor, you will be very very FASTER! The windows UI is really good too with the unlockable backstage for my 2nd screen --- Benjamin
I like to change the title text of rules, groups etc to a description of what is happening in that area - that way I have an overview of what is working. However text editing of that type is harder than it has to be, because its not possible to select text with the mouse - any mouse click exits the text editing functionality. This is especially difficult because I often copy-paste functions and only want to change one or two words in the description - right now, doing this by scrolling one character at a time using the arrow keys. I hope this gets fixed.
Also - correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Enter, in the expression editor, should always confirm/close that dialogue. I don't think it will ever be necessary to insert a paragraph break in the expression editor.
Braydon_SFXMember, Sous Chef, PRO, Bowlboy SidekickPosts: 9,271
Also - correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Enter, in the expression editor, should always confirm/close that dialogue. I don't think it will ever be necessary to insert a paragraph break in the expression editor.
Yeah same here, I don't like that it inserts a paragraph.
Please fix images not sizing actors when added to them. Very annoying as I'm working with images I made forever ago that I don't recall sizes off hand! Lol. But other then that UI is unbelievable. This is only problem I have with it period!
I love it all you guys are awesome! It's going to take a little bit to get used to but I'm sure it will make development easier for me One suggestion though when I go to edit like the scene size pressing enter wont work I have to press somewhere else thats about it though nice job guys
@iScet - We are working on it! Should be in the next beta release.
@monkeysalad - Will definitely take a look at the text stuff. Good catch on that. We also have an updated expression editor that I believe is going to be put out in the next beta release. It is waaaay better than what is currently available.
I have finally installed GS on one of my PC's to test out the UI, and I honestly hate it. It feels overly complicated, and I stopped playing around with it after 5 minutes.
I really hope that the windows UI does not transfer over to mac. Wow... At first I was really excited about the new UI that might be available for mac soon.
I'm not sure I like the new UI. LIKE IT 1) the xy coords and rotation of actor is awesome 2) the tabs for game/scene/actors/sound etc
HATE IT 1) the work is still on vertical basis and this is not good for the mouse hand. For human hand articulation, a right left movement is easier than an up/down movement. the correct movement should be : select an item on the left (top left is the mos focused area of a screen) and drag it or click on the center of the screen. or, still better, use some dropdown menu directly from the RIGHT BUTTON (i.e. all the behaviour are so down in the screen, it would be easier if they appear after a simple right click, next to my actor/rule/cursor 2)the undocking of backstage is so MAC... we in windowsworld love the full packed and docked screen and no flying menus and items around the screen. 3) if I undock the stage, please let the position be SAVED for the next session
I think it would have been easier to evaluate this if I could open an existing (Mac) file. Using a file I am familiar with would instantly allow me to say,"oh, there's where that is". Lots of good changes and plenty of head scratching.
Braydon_SFXMember, Sous Chef, PRO, Bowlboy SidekickPosts: 9,271
So I've played around a bit more...
Basically - if you could add a backstage and the X and Y cords of actors like they are in the windows UI, I'd be a happy guy. keep everything else the same(in Mac UI). I don't like where the global attributes are. I don't like how the behaviors are split up into different groups - if you could just scroll and find the one you want, that would be nice, like in the Mac UI.
But Backstage is the biggest thing - bring that over to Mac and leave everything else.
Hm. I'm coming into this without having ever tried the mac version, and I guess that's the problem maybe?
What would I like to change?
- Everything takes up to much room onscreen (I have a 2 small-ish screens at work (1920x1080 I think?), and it's horrible trying to fit everything in on it) - Could rules/timers/groups be colour coded, in fact everything should be colour coded by type? You're trying to make everything as easy to see and as beginner friendly, and that's definitely a way of doing it. - Could I group things together, by using tabs (instead of a super long stream of things happening to one actor? - even when minimized/grouped they take up way, way too much room on screen) - For example you could have one tab for movement rules, one for touch events, and another for whatever, and would have it so it's only showing 2 or three things per tab, rather than a huge, unintuitive list. - Actually, the whole UI seems kinda unintuitive, things didn't work as I'd like them too, ever (I tried the snapping windows to the side of the screen, and ended up with a minimum size over the half way mark - snapping windows is key, and for it not to work is quite rubbish) - Allow resizing, and scaling of things (look at Unity3d, on how to do it well) - Make more things modular, and able to be put in different windows (like the library) - Why is the 'backstage' the whole of the bottom? Takes up way too much screen real estate, while adding very, very little - most of it's blank space! -Make an actor (which actually took me while - originally I was making 'tags' (whatever they are)>Look at the backstage>Why is there a huge checker board of wasted space? above the info? - There are caps on some headings, but not others "size" "rotation" "Graphics", sounds small, but there's just an awful lot of inconsistency with the UI tbh. - Runs quite slowly (apparently this is a windows issue) - Let me press f2 to rename things! (Add a group>double click to rename>click inside box>stops renaming).
I know, beta is beta, but I wanted to make a really, really quick mock up of an idea a friend had as fast as possible, (it was simple and 2d) and ended up using a fully fledged 3d program to do it in, and coded it all, which was quicker than fiddling around with this finicky UI
Export function works but when opening file on my Mac after extracting it to a Gameproj it won't let me open any actors and Halfway freezes up completing messin up and can't continue my work since in back on my Mac Other then that... I love unlocking the backstage and resizing it to fit in where the scene is and just clicking show/hide backstage... I hate having to do this everytime lol but this works quickest and best for me and absolutely love how the flow works
After some testing of the UI, I like most, find both positives and negatives with it. The Mac UI is overall more clean and professional, albiet a bit too scattered with all the elements, so for the look i gotta give it to mac.
Feedback for windows version: -Layers, actors, etc being shown in a layered type list. Tabs are ok but obviously we need dragging images onto actor to scale them, having images and sounds up top is a little slower. -The bottom panel is a actually faster for me, but I do not like the attributes location or styling. Tabs here are great however. - Not sure I like the listing types for each behavior as much as just having a list. Having both options available would be optimal.
As I use it more i'll provide more feedback, thanks for making this available on windows GS!
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Have not read the thread so forgive me for any repeat info. I like some of the live attribute stuff for the instances and the actor info appearing without actually opening an actor but I hate the overall layout. it is currently impossible to use o my 13" screen. Im guessing the guys designing this have 2 monitors? or 1 really big ass monitor. I think GS needs to take into account the smaller end computers people might be using. If you are going for "game creation for everyone" and not planning to have the same This is making me buy some other piece of equipment cause I only I x size screen then you've got to take into account the smaller laptops out there. I have used this on my 13" screen as well as a family members 15.6" screen which is the standard size cheap laptops out there these days and it sucks.
If I had 2 monitors then it would be no problem but the current setup sucks for only 1 small one.
Comments
Just to put it out there, being able to publish games to XBL Arcade would be a pretty rad selling point.
It matters not because SSS already stated that they're not using XNA for anything. They must be including it for some not-yet-mentioned feature, the possibilities are interesting if not exciting.
As for the UI: been using it a bit more today and I think it looks a lot better than before and better organized. Although I think it's a tad bit too winform-ish for my tastes, but I could get over that.
The windows UI is really good too with the unlockable backstage for my 2nd screen
---
Benjamin
This alleviation my issues with having to drag them over. I like it better, but you do need to learn to reference them by name ;-)
Also - correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Enter, in the expression editor, should always confirm/close that dialogue. I don't think it will ever be necessary to insert a paragraph break in the expression editor.
My GameSalad Academy Courses! ◦ Check out my quality templates! ◦ Add me on Skype: braydon_sfx
@monkeysalad - Will definitely take a look at the text stuff. Good catch on that. We also have an updated expression editor that I believe is going to be put out in the next beta release. It is waaaay better than what is currently available.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
I would like layers as in photoshop. u_______u
Mac Os UI version bye bye :`(
I really hope that the windows UI does not transfer over to mac. Wow... At first I was really excited about the new UI that might be available for mac soon.
Jack McGraw
I hope my MBP is repaired soon ugghh...
LIKE IT
1) the xy coords and rotation of actor is awesome
2) the tabs for game/scene/actors/sound etc
HATE IT
1) the work is still on vertical basis and this is not good for the mouse hand. For human hand articulation, a right left movement is easier than an up/down movement. the correct movement should be : select an item on the left (top left is the mos focused area of a screen) and drag it or click on the center of the screen. or, still better, use some dropdown menu directly from the RIGHT BUTTON (i.e. all the behaviour are so down in the screen, it would be easier if they appear after a simple right click, next to my actor/rule/cursor
2)the undocking of backstage is so MAC... we in windowsworld love the full packed and docked screen and no flying menus and items around the screen.
3) if I undock the stage, please let the position be SAVED for the next session
anyway... gs is so coooool ;-)
Basically - if you could add a backstage and the X and Y cords of actors like they are in the windows UI, I'd be a happy guy.
But Backstage is the biggest thing - bring that over to Mac and leave everything else.
More opinions from Braydon coming soon...
My GameSalad Academy Courses! ◦ Check out my quality templates! ◦ Add me on Skype: braydon_sfx
What would I like to change?
- Everything takes up to much room onscreen (I have a 2 small-ish screens at work (1920x1080 I think?), and it's horrible trying to fit everything in on it)
- Could rules/timers/groups be colour coded, in fact everything should be colour coded by type? You're trying to make everything as easy to see and as beginner friendly, and that's definitely a way of doing it.
- Could I group things together, by using tabs (instead of a super long stream of things happening to one actor? - even when minimized/grouped they take up way, way too much room on screen) - For example you could have one tab for movement rules, one for touch events, and another for whatever, and would have it so it's only showing 2 or three things per tab, rather than a huge, unintuitive list.
- Actually, the whole UI seems kinda unintuitive, things didn't work as I'd like them too, ever (I tried the snapping windows to the side of the screen, and ended up with a minimum size over the half way mark - snapping windows is key, and for it not to work is quite rubbish)
- Allow resizing, and scaling of things (look at Unity3d, on how to do it well)
- Make more things modular, and able to be put in different windows (like the library)
- Why is the 'backstage' the whole of the bottom? Takes up way too much screen real estate, while adding very, very little - most of it's blank space!
-Make an actor (which actually took me while - originally I was making 'tags' (whatever they are)>Look at the backstage>Why is there a huge checker board of wasted space? above the info?
- There are caps on some headings, but not others "size" "rotation" "Graphics", sounds small, but there's just an awful lot of inconsistency with the UI tbh.
- Runs quite slowly (apparently this is a windows issue)
- Let me press f2 to rename things! (Add a group>double click to rename>click inside box>stops renaming).
I know, beta is beta, but I wanted to make a really, really quick mock up of an idea a friend had as fast as possible, (it was simple and 2d) and ended up using a fully fledged 3d program to do it in, and coded it all, which was quicker than fiddling around with this finicky UI
Gameproj it won't let me open any actors and Halfway freezes up
Other then that... I love unlocking the backstage and resizing it to fit in where the scene is and just clicking show/hide backstage... I hate having to do this everytime lol but this works quickest and best for me and absolutely love how the flow works
Feedback for windows version:
-Layers, actors, etc being shown in a layered type list. Tabs are ok but obviously we need dragging images onto actor to scale them, having images and sounds up top is a little slower.
-The bottom panel is a actually faster for me, but I do not like the attributes location or styling. Tabs here are great however.
- Not sure I like the listing types for each behavior as much as just having a list. Having both options available would be optimal.
As I use it more i'll provide more feedback, thanks for making this available on windows GS!
If I had 2 monitors then it would be no problem but the current setup sucks for only 1 small one.