I consider gamesalad more of an opportunity to professional illustrators than to people with plain old game ideas. Its harder to make great art than to come up with an idea for a game. I agree with clint as well, very well said!
Believe me, I would love to be able to help out some of the guys here with illustration work for a greatly reduced price, but unfortunately this is my business, this is how I make a living, I don't have another form of income or a company paying my medical etc! So I am looking at things from that side, witch mite be a bit biased I suppose.
I have had some people here contact me, and I am seeing what I can do to help them out with some artwork, and I won't be charging my normal rate. I believe in what you put out comes back, and I KNOW that I am going to need some major help when it comes to learning GS to do my own programming! Heck, at the moment I don't even have a MAC to learn GS!!!
@shmuley95 … said: I consider gamesalad more of an opportunity to professional illustrators than to people with plain old game ideas. Its harder to make great art than to come up with an idea for a game.shmuley95 … we don't just have ideas … we have skills to make them real …
read the name of this forum … read the name of the program … think is says GameSalad! not IllustratorSalad
are you implying that we are "people with plain old game ideas" ??? I will explicitly state: I am tired of people who see GS, and this Forum, only as a market-place! Especially, those who insult us and insult what we do.
We have many multi-talented musicians, artist/illustrators, who also have great ideas and program them into a games! IMO as game developers, we should first look to buy art from those who also make games! They are the true Professional Game Illustrators … they know how their artWork works in a game and what we will need to make that work in ours! (so many complaints from people who paid for artwork and got what is odd-sized and format! things they specifically requested and now have to redo.)
Making a quality games requires a host of skills depending on the game. With say an RPG, you better be a great story teller because that audience plays those games for the complex storylines as well as the gameplay. We make children's book app, which mean we have to make our product relatable to the specific age group and the interaction has to be accessible to their skill level. You have to understand how music impacts the feel and flow of your runner et.... There is more to games than making a character jump or great art. Evey type of game has a vibe and flow to it and that attracts people to it, not oh look shinny objects. Your audience is smart, treat them as such! Making games is more like alchemy than any individual element.
@Clint No Mac?! No GameSalad? That's it, break out the tar and feathers people!
@MotherHoose Yeah, I'm not sure where this GameSalad = a better opportunity for artists, unless @shmuley95 you are saying that being an artist using GameSalad is going to be more beneficial (or maybe you mean for paid to do artwork). While that is true to an extent, if you are not GS savvy or have have purposeful gameplay in your game, it is not going to be successful on the art alone. I've seen some artists gone-developer swear off game development altogether when their game got backlash from their audience for bad gameplay and alienating the audience. They thought for sure that their art and animations were going to make their game the next Rayman. Some people think that just because they think they understand what game art is or should be, that they have the edge as a game developer. Not true. There are too many different angles where the foundation can crumble.
Here are few examples of GREAT games where the art was restricted by the by the designer's choice. The Katamari series, Geometry wars, Gregory Horror House. All of these contained original yet simplified art styles and geometric shapes. The interface, sound, environments and atmosphere are what drove them to be great, not the visuals. I'm totally down with great visuals, believe you me, but it is NOT necessary to sell a game or more importantly enjoy playing it. Heck, Tetris is still hot.
I should say that Storytelling and meaningful character development should also be tossed into that mix, but they are not always necessary depending upon the the type game you are making.
also, some really good games in GS that have minimal artWork (and, certainly not Illustrator realism) … and were very successful!
I often will work with pictures that were taken by me or the family … or are in public domain for added realism work = much work, filters; pixel-delete; selecting and pasting; not as tedious as it sounds! and I enjoy gfx work IMO for artwork one has a lot of options!
Now, that is not so for music! bad music takes all the fun out of a game!
I agree that art is undervalued. But people are trying to develop their games on a shoe string budget in a bad economy so I understand the compulsion to get everything as cheap as possible (or free). I think good games can work with bad art. The XKCD webcomic is very popular because of the writing but the art is nothing more than childish stick figures. I personally can't get into that comic because of the art.
I would argue, if you are developing a game you want to do well, that you want all parts of your app to be as good as possible. I would think that a good concept, good game play AND good art would give it a better chance of becoming a hit.
@clint Maybe this isn't a good way to introduce yourself to a new community? I'm sure I've done similar things myself so this isn't a judgement, but coming in fresh and telling a community what you feel is wrong with it is probably starting off on the wrong foot.
@GS Community sometimes people have a hot button issue and need to get their frustrations of their chests. A little grace can go a long way and may help people cope with these issues better. It's probably best to be kind or just leave them to their own devices.
@RP Very well put! And I do agree, If a game does not have a good base gameplay structure, then great artwork is not going to make it better. That is why I have come here to discuss it, and get guys on the other side showing their perspective on Indie development. And Ya, I do need to be tared and feathered for not having a Mac! I am saving for one, but over here in SA, prices are rediculous for them! Can't believe I have made do with a PC and Windows all these years!!! I hate win so much!
@EVERYONE who I pissed off for coming across so strong too, I appologise again! But I am glad you stuck around and showed me your side of things. You must also remember, I am from South Africa, so we have a strong way of saying things, our way of saying things mite sound obnoxious sometimes, but that is not our intent! I think that all comes from our wild and violent past.
Thanks all for your comments, I am getting allot out of what you have to say.
Comments
I have had some people here contact me, and I am seeing what I can do to help them out with some artwork, and I won't be charging my normal rate. I believe in what you put out comes back, and I KNOW that I am going to need some major help when it comes to learning GS to do my own programming! Heck, at the moment I don't even have a MAC to learn GS!!!
Lump Apps and My Assets
are you implying that we are "people with plain old game ideas" ???
I will explicitly state: I am tired of people who see GS, and this Forum, only as a market-place!
Especially, those who insult us and insult what we do.
We have many multi-talented musicians, artist/illustrators, who also have great ideas and program them into a games!
IMO as game developers, we should first look to buy art from those who also make games!
They are the true Professional Game Illustrators … they know how their artWork works in a game and what we will need to make that work in ours!
(so many complaints from people who paid for artwork and got what is odd-sized and format!
things they specifically requested and now have to redo.)
@};- MH
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
@MotherHoose Yeah, I'm not sure where this GameSalad = a better opportunity for artists, unless @shmuley95 you are saying that being an artist using GameSalad is going to be more beneficial (or maybe you mean for paid to do artwork). While that is true to an extent, if you are not GS savvy or have have purposeful gameplay in your game, it is not going to be successful on the art alone. I've seen some artists gone-developer swear off game development altogether when their game got backlash from their audience for bad gameplay and alienating the audience. They thought for sure that their art and animations were going to make their game the next Rayman. Some people think that just because they think they understand what game art is or should be, that they have the edge as a game developer. Not true. There are too many different angles where the foundation can crumble.
Here are few examples of GREAT games where the art was restricted by the by the designer's choice. The Katamari series, Geometry wars, Gregory Horror House. All of these contained original yet simplified art styles and geometric shapes. The interface, sound, environments and atmosphere are what drove them to be great, not the visuals. I'm totally down with great visuals, believe you me, but it is NOT necessary to sell a game or more importantly enjoy playing it. Heck, Tetris is still hot.
I should say that Storytelling and meaningful character development should also be tossed into that mix, but they are not always necessary depending upon the the type game you are making.
also, some really good games in GS that have minimal artWork (and, certainly not Illustrator realism) … and were very successful!
I often will work with pictures that were taken by me or the family … or are in public domain for added realism
work = much work, filters; pixel-delete; selecting and pasting; not as tedious as it sounds! and I enjoy gfx work
IMO for artwork one has a lot of options!
Now, that is not so for music! bad music takes all the fun out of a game!
@};- MH
I would argue, if you are developing a game you want to do well, that you want all parts of your app to be as good as possible. I would think that a good concept, good game play AND good art would give it a better chance of becoming a hit.
@clint Maybe this isn't a good way to introduce yourself to a new community? I'm sure I've done similar things myself so this isn't a judgement, but coming in fresh and telling a community what you feel is wrong with it is probably starting off on the wrong foot.
@GS Community sometimes people have a hot button issue and need to get their frustrations of their chests. A little grace can go a long way and may help people cope with these issues better. It's probably best to be kind or just leave them to their own devices.
@EVERYONE who I pissed off for coming across so strong too, I appologise again! But I am glad you stuck around and showed me your side of things. You must also remember, I am from South Africa, so we have a strong way of saying things, our way of saying things mite sound obnoxious sometimes, but that is not our intent! I think that all comes from our wild and violent past.
Thanks all for your comments, I am getting allot out of what you have to say.
Lump Apps and My Assets