I always hoped that if enough people tell you that you're pretentious and, well, wrong most of the time that you would book your ideas up, but it turns out you just get worse.
I think you just don't see the criticism, it's like some disease where you can't actually read bad things. Someone says that the characters are crap but that BOT is not as dumb and you take that to mean that BOT is a great character and that you compare yourself to Thundercats and Terminator to justify yourself when you never intended that, it just turned out crap.
There is no need to backpedal and try and spin a good light on everything that is said because nobody believes your cover-up stories. There is one reason and one reason only that you didn't include a link to the game and that is because you forgot. End of story. Just accept the fact you forgot and update it with the link. Forgetting something is no big deal, you just forgot. What is the big deal is that you try making up stories as to why you didn't include it because you want everyone to think you're Mr. AppStore who knows everything and never misses a single thing.
Ace
P.S. This will never,ever, EVER be made in to a movie so no need to worry about casting of strong young parts.
The aspect of your project that most interests me is your interface for the comic. This I think is good and addresses many of the problems involved in such a format. The sequencing of the images with the flow from one image to another works. I am not sure how else it might be addressed while still holding onto the layout of a comic page. Part of me wanted to be able to see the whole page or whole frame as an option, and I can see that it might be possible to use 'whole page' as some kind of switchable menu system. But I can also see that the zooming/panning/tracking to areas of the frame is a useful way of progressing the story, and with this progression you don't necessarily want the viewer to slide off the linear nature of the telling. So it is an interesting balance of elements.
The questions in my mind raised that it raises are-
Should one hang onto the page format of comics, or go to just sequenced images?
Is there a place for narration as an option?
How to overlay bookmarking and chapter/frame menus?
Is there a way of holding the comic page format and guiding the progression with touch control which doesn't have image movement running against the direction of finger control movement?
If I were you (and you mentioned this), I would contemplate doing a template to sell. I personally would also play a little with the above questions to see if it was possible to make the interface even more intuitive, but I think you already have something.
kipper
edit- 2 additional thoughts- if you did add narration would you have an option to drop speech bubbles? And if you did to it as a template would you have preset custom behaviours for panel set ups?
...along with this have you done a lite version of Bot...not sure how easy that would be having played it..I guess perhaps you could remove some of the world they walk around..
*I'm working on a top down shooter game myself at the moment...won't be as big but I'll hopefully have all the controls and guns setup soon.
Cool idea, hope it helps sales and leads more people to the app.
To continue the thread of helpful criticism, I found two spelling errors:
'premiere' is spelled incorrectly in your first screenshot. 'existence' is spelled incorrectly in the second panel of the comic itself.
Ha, you found spelling errors again!
I uploaded a new screenshot for the app listing.
As for the app, I'm not sure about that yet. Maybe I'll update it and lower the rating. I don't think this is 17+ app. 17+ is like a porno, this is quite far from that.
old_kipper said: Should one hang onto the page format of comics, or go to just sequenced images?
Is there a place for narration as an option?
How to overlay bookmarking and chapter/frame menus?
Is there a way of holding the comic page format and guiding the progression with touch control which doesn't have image movement running against the direction of finger control movement?
Question 1 - It's a good question. I think it's up to the developer. I think if it was just one screen after the other, it wouldn't look like a comic. Maybe that's not such a bad thing.
Question 2 - With the way I have the template set up, there could be narration, background music and sound effects!
Question 3 - I think if you went with a straight panel effect, the screen could be divided like this... 480x256 and 480x64. That's more memory efficient and it would leave room for a navigation menu, where bookmarking and chapter/frame options could be added.
Question 4 - I don't understand this question.
old_kipper said: edit- 2 additional thoughts- if you did add narration would you have an option to drop speech bubbles? And if you did to it as a template would you have preset custom behaviours for panel set ups?
If I did add narration, I could simply turn it into a cartoon/movie. I already have the 3D models, so all I have to do is add animation. So a good question is... does the world need comics anymore? Since GameSalad doesn't support video files yet, it does make sense here. If you want to build a simple intro for your game, the comic might a good idea. It keeps the file smaller. The speech bubbles could be dropped, but I think people would then be expecting to see lips and mouths moving... unless it's just narration.
An excellent example of the comic intro is Bumps. It opens up with what is basically a comic. It uses linear panels, so it doesn't need to be setup like a page.
As for creating this as a template, I'm not sure. I'm waiting to see what happens with the Marketplace. We should have seen more news about it by now. Again... it's like Apple's App store... I could simply put the content on my website. The main difference is that the Marketplace is a highly targeted shop.
stormystudio said: *I'm working on a top down shooter game myself at the moment...won't be as big but I'll hopefully have all the controls and guns setup soon.
Hey, nice... a top-down shooter!
I've been thinking about a side-scrolling shooter, but I'm still working on A Fiery Pinball.
I think it's better to have a smaller app that's solid, than a bigger app that has some problems. People seem to notice the mistakes a lot quicker than all the hard work that went into the app.
Is there a way of holding the comic page format and guiding the progression with touch control which doesn't have image movement running against the direction of finger control movement?
What I am asking is down to this. When the user moves through most of your pages a pattern of swipes builds understanding and is re-enforced by repetition of the movement of the frame , but in some case (where you are jumping back to the start of a line of frames) there is some discontinuity. I see that once learnt, the finger control is known, and the break from visual flow can be understood but there is something in that break that feels not quite as it smooth as the standard move, and possibly counter intuitive. Admittedly this may all be semantics, but finding a fix for this kind of stuff I find really interesting and feel that the results often are surprising in giving a fluid and seamless experience (by not for a moment dropping the user out of viewing the content by having to think about anything else).
I think you might mean... can the page be manually controlled?
With GameSalad, you can recreate many common iOS gestures, such as pinch-to-zoom. And if you wanted free roaming page movement, that can be added too. It's just a matter of moving the camera relative to the touch position.
Also, I just sent an update to Apple. This will lower the app's rating and correct a spelling error.
No. The page is manually controlled. What I ask is if it is possible to make all visual movement consistent and not break to a counter movement that seems very mildly at odds with current control swipe direction... Its very much about the look and feel.
Just read an article about game Development that might be up your street. Reminded me alot of your views on game design...
Paraphrasing: The game designer talks about not wanting to over simplify his gameplay and likes the idea of exploration/discovery in his games, something he thinks has disappeared from mainstream games. He then goes on to talk about his views on feedback and how he doesn't necessarily like it as you can't help but feel the need to try and fix something every time someone gets stuck. Which in turn can over simplify a game and take away any 'aha' moments...
old_kipper said: No. The page is manually controlled. What I ask is if it is possible to make all visual movement consistent and not break to a counter movement that seems very mildly at odds with current control swipe direction... Its very much about the look and feel.
So... I think your problem is that when you swipe left, the page sometimes moves down.
The problem with that is the viewer wouldn't know when to swipe down or left, as they can't see the whole page layout from the little screen. I think this relates to your questions about sequenced images... which I think means linear images — one panel per screen, all the same size, lined up in a row, one after the other.
If up-and-down movement is eliminated, simple left and right swiping is actually easier to do technically.
I agree. the linear is easier. But might be more fun to keep the comic pages and try to get something by way of interface that pushes the grooviness. How the page 'turns' is also a cultural thing as obviously there is a difference in reading direction. Similar rules are used in film, with the moving of actors into scene left and progressing to scene right and those they meet travel from right to left. Return journeys.. also running right to left. All these things I think can have bearing on interface design, and if I can get my head around it... help. One project I'm working on has had about 20 versions of a UI in order to make it as clear as possible, and I've stolen pixel by pixel to space buttons and touch areas. Swipe controls are not anything I have tackled... yet. But I like i said I find your interface interesting.
I'm seriously considering the continuation of this series. It was fun and most of the people that checked it out seem to really enjoy it. I realize that I could have done a better job with this comic if I had used something other than GameSalad. Arrays and Universal Binaries would dramatically improve this App. But whatever... the software should catch up soon. Maybe this series could become very popular and successful.
It's fun to imagine how the GameSalad developers react when they see stuff like this. I think they might have been surprised and impressed. GameSalad wasn't really built to create comics, but I didn't let that stop me. Now that I've created a comic with GameSalad, maybe there will be other comics out there.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Photics said: ... Now that I've created a comic with GameSalad, maybe there will be other comics out there.
I know your just gonna say i'm a Sous-Chef who needs to respectful. But I just cant help but point out your not the first to make a comic.
tenrdrmer said: Nothing Wrong with the comic Photics. I just think you should deflate a little.
...and I think you're still not doing your job. Clearly your response is no where near professional. As a representative of GameSalad, you're only hurting the reputation of yourself and of the company when you attempt to insult me. I can't think of a single forum that I frequent where your actions would be acceptable. Maybe you should step down if you're not up to the challenge of your role.
As I mentioned earlier in this forum, when I linked to this thread... http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=485 ...I know I'm not the first to make a comic with GameSalad, but maybe I'll help make it trendy. Maybe this project will encourage others to make comics with GameSalad... maybe even make one better.
For some reason, I think it the comic book format is a great story mode for GameSalad. It doesn't just have to be a GameSalad comic. It could be a way to introduce a game's story.
jonmulcahy said: did you get a link to your app in this update?
Nope, as I posted before... a link was intentionally left out.
I respect Photics ability to build up hype, that's a gift in itself. The TouchArcade thread he started for the upcoming release of Bot was great, until it sort of train wrecked... then I had to look away. But the level of effort he put into building up Bot was admirable.
This comic is another good idea and leaving off a link to the game is priceless, yet confusing and odd.
Comments
I think you just don't see the criticism, it's like some disease where you can't actually read bad things. Someone says that the characters are crap but that BOT is not as dumb and you take that to mean that BOT is a great character and that you compare yourself to Thundercats and Terminator to justify yourself when you never intended that, it just turned out crap.
There is no need to backpedal and try and spin a good light on everything that is said because nobody believes your cover-up stories. There is one reason and one reason only that you didn't include a link to the game and that is because you forgot. End of story. Just accept the fact you forgot and update it with the link. Forgetting something is no big deal, you just forgot. What is the big deal is that you try making up stories as to why you didn't include it because you want everyone to think you're Mr. AppStore who knows everything and never misses a single thing.
Ace
P.S. This will never,ever, EVER be made in to a movie so no need to worry about casting of strong young parts.
The questions in my mind raised that it raises are-
Should one hang onto the page format of comics, or go to just sequenced images?
Is there a place for narration as an option?
How to overlay bookmarking and chapter/frame menus?
Is there a way of holding the comic page format and guiding the progression with touch control which doesn't have image movement running against the direction of finger control movement?
If I were you (and you mentioned this), I would contemplate doing a template to sell. I personally would also play a little with the above questions to see if it was possible to make the interface even more intuitive, but I think you already have something.
kipper
edit- 2 additional thoughts- if you did add narration would you have an option to drop speech bubbles? And if you did to it as a template would you have preset custom behaviours for panel set ups?
...along with this have you done a lite version of Bot...not sure how easy that would be having played it..I guess perhaps you could remove some of the world they walk around..
*I'm working on a top down shooter game myself at the moment...won't be as big but I'll hopefully have all the controls and guns setup soon.
Good luck with the promotion app.
I uploaded a new screenshot for the app listing.
As for the app, I'm not sure about that yet. Maybe I'll update it and lower the rating. I don't think this is 17+ app. 17+ is like a porno, this is quite far from that. Question 1 - It's a good question. I think it's up to the developer. I think if it was just one screen after the other, it wouldn't look like a comic. Maybe that's not such a bad thing.
Question 2 - With the way I have the template set up, there could be narration, background music and sound effects!
Question 3 - I think if you went with a straight panel effect, the screen could be divided like this... 480x256 and 480x64. That's more memory efficient and it would leave room for a navigation menu, where bookmarking and chapter/frame options could be added.
Question 4 - I don't understand this question. If I did add narration, I could simply turn it into a cartoon/movie. I already have the 3D models, so all I have to do is add animation. So a good question is... does the world need comics anymore? Since GameSalad doesn't support video files yet, it does make sense here. If you want to build a simple intro for your game, the comic might a good idea. It keeps the file smaller. The speech bubbles could be dropped, but I think people would then be expecting to see lips and mouths moving... unless it's just narration.
An excellent example of the comic intro is Bumps. It opens up with what is basically a comic. It uses linear panels, so it doesn't need to be setup like a page.
As for creating this as a template, I'm not sure. I'm waiting to see what happens with the Marketplace. We should have seen more news about it by now. Again... it's like Apple's App store... I could simply put the content on my website. The main difference is that the Marketplace is a highly targeted shop. Hey, nice... a top-down shooter!
I've been thinking about a side-scrolling shooter, but I'm still working on A Fiery Pinball.
I think it's better to have a smaller app that's solid, than a bigger app that has some problems. People seem to notice the mistakes a lot quicker than all the hard work that went into the app.
Is there a way of holding the comic page format and guiding the progression with touch control which doesn't have image movement running against the direction of finger control movement?
What I am asking is down to this. When the user moves through most of your pages a pattern of swipes builds understanding and is re-enforced by repetition of the movement of the frame , but in some case (where you are jumping back to the start of a line of frames) there is some discontinuity. I see that once learnt, the finger control is known, and the break from visual flow can be understood but there is something in that break that feels not quite as it smooth as the standard move, and possibly counter intuitive. Admittedly this may all be semantics, but finding a fix for this kind of stuff I find really interesting and feel that the results often are surprising in giving a fluid and seamless experience (by not for a moment dropping the user out of viewing the content by having to think about anything else).
I think you might mean... can the page be manually controlled?
With GameSalad, you can recreate many common iOS gestures, such as pinch-to-zoom. And if you wanted free roaming page movement, that can be added too. It's just a matter of moving the camera relative to the touch position.
Also, I just sent an update to Apple. This will lower the app's rating and correct a spelling error.
Just read an article about game Development that might be up your street. Reminded me alot of your views on game design...
Paraphrasing:
The game designer talks about not wanting to over simplify his gameplay and likes the idea of exploration/discovery in his games, something he thinks has disappeared from mainstream games. He then goes on to talk about his views on feedback and how he doesn't necessarily like it as you can't help but feel the need to try and fix something every time someone gets stuck. Which in turn can over simplify a game and take away any 'aha' moments...
Anyway..its a good read if you've got the time...
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6451/bearing_witness.php
The problem with that is the viewer wouldn't know when to swipe down or left, as they can't see the whole page layout from the little screen. I think this relates to your questions about sequenced images... which I think means linear images — one panel per screen, all the same size, lined up in a row, one after the other.
If up-and-down movement is eliminated, simple left and right swiping is actually easier to do technically.
People care - thats whats important.
J
Basically, there are two changes with this update...
• Fixed spelling error
• Lowered rating
I posted about the rating change here...
http://photics.com/what-rating-should-you-give-your-app
I'm seriously considering the continuation of this series. It was fun and most of the people that checked it out seem to really enjoy it. I realize that I could have done a better job with this comic if I had used something other than GameSalad. Arrays and Universal Binaries would dramatically improve this App. But whatever... the software should catch up soon. Maybe this series could become very popular and successful.
It's fun to imagine how the GameSalad developers react when they see stuff like this. I think they might have been surprised and impressed. GameSalad wasn't really built to create comics, but I didn't let that stop me. Now that I've created a comic with GameSalad, maybe there will be other comics out there.
There was one in Christmas of 2009
http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=2028
I couldn't find it on the app store anymore but heres a site with description and screen shots.
http://www.iphonenows.com/GamesApps/Action/2011/0119/2708.html
Nothing Wrong with the comic Photics. I just think you should deflate a little.
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As I mentioned earlier in this forum, when I linked to this thread... http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=485 ...I know I'm not the first to make a comic with GameSalad, but maybe I'll help make it trendy. Maybe this project will encourage others to make comics with GameSalad... maybe even make one better.
For some reason, I think it the comic book format is a great story mode for GameSalad. It doesn't just have to be a GameSalad comic. It could be a way to introduce a game's story. Nope, as I posted before... a link was intentionally left out.
Anyways good luck with it. I think it's a great marketing tool, but I do think you ate hurting yourself without a link.
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This comic is another good idea and leaving off a link to the game is priceless, yet confusing and odd.
Best of luck!
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