Smart Ninja - Need feedback

codematescodemates Member Posts: 112
edited November -1 in Announce Your Game!
Hi,
I'm making good progress with my first game with gamesalad and would like to get some feedback from this community. I wanted to know if this game is enough as is to do well on the appstore or additional features needs to be added.

Lots of animation on this game so the game load is very slow but I'm working on tweaking that now.

Please let me know what you think.



Thanks,
Geoffrey

Sorry about the decal on the video. I'm using free version of Jing and won't upload video to youtube properly so I have to convert to avi with this freeware converter :) Any recommendation on a screen capture?

Comments

  • AsymptoteellAsymptoteell Member Posts: 1,362
    Looks great, but I'd do some antialiasing on the images to make it look more smooth.
  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Member Posts: 5,394
    Looks great indeed. Have you tested on an actual device to see what gameplay is like? If you use the viewer it shows how much ram etc is being used. Im a bit worried with all that animation it will crash you game
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  • codematescodemates Member Posts: 112
    @Asymptoteell Thanks. We actually used antialiasing. It may be the poor quality of the video.

    @beefy_clyro
    Thanks. Yes I constantly test this on my iPhone4 and old 2G. So far it has not crashed on me. Only concern I really have on the phone is the loading time from pressing Play to the Game takes approx. 15-17seconds.

    From Viewer this is what I get:
    Performance: 25-50 FPS
    Memory Usage:
    Images - 153.4MB
    Sounds - 8.2MB
    Game Engine: 11.0MB
    Other - 62.1 MB

    I've optimized all the graphics and used Darren's optimizer but I still couldn't lessen the load time. Any thoughts?
  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Member Posts: 5,394
    In my opinion you gotta get those images down, perhaps on some of the animations you could take out every other frame. It should still look smooth enough but would start dropping that massive size. I dont think without doing this you'll get those load times down, it just has to load a huge amount of images for 1 scene.

    Whats the total ram usage as well?
    Im surprised it doesnt crash the 2g, anything over 40mb total ram will eventually crash anything below a 3gs and its equivalent touch device.
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  • old_kipperold_kipper Member Posts: 1,420
    I think if you have a good look at your images you might well reduce memory problems. There are lots of references around here to using graphics that are ruled by the mighty power of 2 (make things sit inside of pixel dimensions that are multiples of 2- 2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,etc. This is because the graphics sit in memory containers in the program measured in these sizes and if you stray over a measurement it takes it up to the next measurement in the contained sizes.

    But this is not necessarily going to up your load times but it might help. Your large background graphics might be best cut up into the mentioned sizes and place on screen to build up a full screen image.

    I still don't quite see why you are using quite so much memory after looking at your video so would ask you if are actually using graphics larger than the images displayed on screen and if you are just dragging them smaller as actors? If you are I would use graphics that are to actual displayed size.

    Load times are based on reading the graphics file and the size of the file I think does make a difference on that. If it is the case I suspect that gradients and texture may add to load times so might be avoided.

    Also remember that odd numbers on pixel sizes cause display problems and may cause your image to be blurred.

    Animation eats memory by using lots of images. A single body with separate arms that are smaller move as a separate actor will eat less memory that repeating the body in every frame with the moving arms in one actor.

    If you have covered all this, it might well be down to some hard decisions about what to cut out. You might be able to reuse some animation/frames, or reduce the number of frames in any animation.

    I hope that helps.

    kipper
  • codematescodemates Member Posts: 112
    beefy_clyro said:
    In my opinion you gotta get those images down, perhaps on some of the animations you could take out every other frame. It should still look smooth enough but would start dropping that massive size. I dont think without doing this you'll get those load times down, it just has to load a huge amount of images for 1 scene.

    Whats the total ram usage as well?
    Im surprised it doesnt crash the 2g, anything over 40mb total ram will eventually crash anything below a 3gs and its equivalent touch device.

    Total is around 226MB

    I was pretty surprise myself but I just got rid of that 2G and no longer able to test on it. This may have worked prior to me adding additional animations to the game. iPhone 4 result however is flawless, just too big.

    I did try to lessen the animation to as much as possible. I'll try to dig into those a little more.

    Thanks
  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Member Posts: 5,394
    Total at 226mb is waaaaaay too high! Im pretty sure any over 40mb will crash older devices. Not sure why your 'other' is at 60mb either, that seems very high too, i would 1st get your images right down, it may mean you need to ditch some of the eye candy stuff though, as great as it looks, its not essential. I think until you get those images down you're seriously gonna struggle!
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  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Member Posts: 5,394
    Oh and what old kipper said above about the size and its containers is a very good point too. Make sure your graphics are imported into GS at the size you need them to be, or double if its retina and ticking the Resolution Independence box
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  • ChaserChaser Member Posts: 1,453
    Why most forget I'm not sure but Quick time does screen record
  • codematescodemates Member Posts: 112
    old_kipper said:
    I think if you have a good look at your images you might well reduce memory problems. There are lots of references around here to using graphics that are ruled by the mighty power of 2 (make things sit inside of pixel dimensions that are multiples of 2- 2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,etc. This is because the graphics sit in memory containers in the program measured in these sizes and if you stray over a measurement it takes it up to the next measurement in the contained sizes.

    I did try to keep all the graphics within the power of 2. I was fortunate I watched all of TSB's cookbook video before I started. I practically ate, sleep and dreamt of TSB's voice :)
    old_kipper said:
    But this is not necessarily going to up your load times but it might help. Your large background graphics might be best cut up into the mentioned sizes and place on screen to build up a full screen image.

    I still don't quite see why you are using quite so much memory after looking at your video so would ask you if are actually using graphics larger than the images displayed on screen and if you are just dragging them smaller as actors? If you are I would use graphics that are to actual displayed size.

    I've resized all the graphics to just fit the actual display size (480X320) and went non-retina :( to lower the images.
    old_kipper said:
    Load times are based on reading the graphics file and the size of the file I think does make a difference on that. If it is the case I suspect that gradients and texture may add to load times so might be avoided.

    Also remember that odd numbers on pixel sizes cause display problems and may cause your image to be blurred.

    I removed all gradients and saved everything to PNG-24
    old_kipper said:
    Animation eats memory by using lots of images. A single body with separate arms that are smaller move as a separate actor will eat less memory that repeating the body in every frame with the moving arms in one actor.

    I may go through this animations again and see what I can clean up.
    old_kipper said:
    If you have covered all this, it might well be down to some hard decisions about what to cut out. You might be able to reuse some animation/frames, or reduce the number of frames in any animation.

    I hope that helps.

    kipper

    Not really sure what I can cut out without sacrificing eye-candy :) I may get rid of the cut/splat animation and just use particles as an alternative. Does particles use less memory than 4-5 sequences animations?

    Yes they are very helpful... Thanks for taking the time to give your feedback.

    Geoffrey
  • codematescodemates Member Posts: 112
    Chaser said:
    Why most forget I'm not sure but Quick time does screen record

    Thanks :)
  • codematescodemates Member Posts: 112
    beefy_clyro said:
    Total at 226mb is waaaaaay too high! Im pretty sure any over 40mb will crash older devices. Not sure why your 'other' is at 60mb either, that seems very high too, i would 1st get your images right down, it may mean you need to ditch some of the eye candy stuff though, as great as it looks, its not essential. I think until you get those images down you're seriously gonna struggle!

    Thanks! I'll try to work my way back.

    Does spawning add to the size?
  • codematescodemates Member Posts: 112
    Hi,
    Other than the performance. Anyone has any feedback how I may be able to improve this game? I know there's already a lot of slicing games out there but is there room for another one? In your opinion if I improve the performance will this hopefully gain some audience?

    Thanks!
  • codematescodemates Member Posts: 112
    OK, I redid the entire game and now have better performance.

    It should be available for beta testing in a week or two. If you're interested to beta test, please signup at http://bit.ly/lMoNqA

    Here's the game trailer:


    Thanks!
  • kapserkapser Member Posts: 458
    This trailer is very awesome!

    In all honesty the gameplay and pinkish color palette killed a bit the hype built in the first seconds of the trailer, but still looks like a great looking game with nice polish. I do believe there's still room for one more slashing game, I like the fact that we see the hero in action this time.

    Great job and good luck!
  • JeffreyShimaneJeffreyShimane Member Posts: 372
    The trailer was very well-made and the graphics are very pleasing to the eye! My only criticisms are:

    1) Based on the trailer, It's not clear to me what the gameplay is. Obviously, it involves slashing but is the player slashing the objects with his/her finger? Or is the player controlling the Smart Ninja (via virtual joystick/buttons) to slash the objects? I think the trailer needs more gameplay footage (perhaps with a finger graphic showing how the player is interacting with the game).

    2) Why is it called "Smart" Ninja? It's pretty obvious why Fruit Ninja/Veggie Samurai are called what they are. At least from the trailer, I don't see any naming synergy with the Smart Ninja name. If there's a reason for why it's called Smart Ninja, you might want to consider putting that in the trailer too.

    3) To kapser's point, the trailer has a more serious, epic tone which does not jibe with the more colorful/playful graphics. Perhaps, when the colorful gameplay footage is revealed, the tone, particularly the music, should change to something lighter.

    Hope that's helpful.

    - Jeff
  • cyplaycyplay Member Posts: 35
    Impressive teaser trailer!
  • kapserkapser Member Posts: 458
    Jeffrey has a good point. The traile music is pretty epic, but it it switched to some joyfull music it would make a great effect to suit that sudden change.
  • beefy_clyrobeefy_clyro Member Posts: 5,394
    Hi Codemates. Im glad you have got it re-done and perfomrance improved, good job. I agree with some of the posts though ... Video needs to show more gameplay! I also, dont see why its called 'Samrt Ninja'. Eevrything else i like, good luck
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  • codematescodemates Member Posts: 112
    I really appreciate all the feedback!

    @kapser - Yeah point taken. Will probably replacing all the pinkish color with maybe a darker red :) Yes that was the idea to showcase the hero and hopefully build this character more.

    @jeffreyshimane/cyplay - I wanted to use the trailer as a "teaser" that's why I didn't want to give too much away. I will be releasing another video with the actual gameplay close to its release or on actual release date. The Smart Ninja name kinda got stuck when I started the concept as a kids game to learn shapes (note the less violence - no sharp weapons, lighter colors, and shapes). During the creation, it's kinda hard to target younger kids with this type of game but I stayed with the name in hopes to release a "prequel" but the more I think of it the more I want to change the name. Any suggestions? I have been toying with the following names: Ninja Kid, Kid Ninja, Ultimate Ninja, etc... At some point I was thinking of just naming it "Aaron" (my son and the voice of the ninja).

    @beefy_clyro - Yeah I'm pretty happy with the performance and load time now after using the white box technique that was discussed on another thread. However I'm running into a different issue now with actors disappearing during game play. I hope it's an issue with the new GS release.

    As always I'm open for any suggestions, critique, etc... I think those honest opinions makes everything better :)

    Thanks!
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