Met with a professional marketeer yesterday ...

xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
edited November -1 in Business and Marketing Theory
Hey gang,
like everyone here, I don't want to make costly mistakes or miss an opportunity and therefore met with a marketing specialist who could advise me how to proceed.

Before I state what he told me, I want to say that he is not marketing mobile apps as his expertise lays with web marketing and desktop software.

He researched what I have done so far and told me to make all my stuff free! His guess was that doing so would build a brand recognition for "Little Composers" which later on can be very valuable.

Does this make any sense to you guys?

Sometime later today or maybe tomorrow my latest app, "Notes for Little Composers" will hit the app store.
It teaches those who have trouble with note reading the note names, is very simple to use and potentially could live on hundreds of thousands of iPhones out there.
The only hurdle is the right price.

If I make it free, no doubt it will receive mass downloads as there is currently no app that does it the way mine does (i've researched them all before I built mine) plus, as a music teacher I know that right now students and teachers are struggling because January and February are weird for learning ... I've seen this every year!

Anyone here has any logic to add?

Is an app that has potential for mass appeal better used to build brand recognition and thus ok to give away as a freebie?
Or, will 99 cents cripple it into obligation?

I have a few hours left to make that decision .....

Comments

  • simo103simo103 Member, PRO Posts: 1,331
    as you may know I'm fairly inexperienced here but I also think that a winning strategy eludes us all to some degree (not to suggest that some haven't attained it but that what works one day seems to not the next etc).

    Having said that however I think your case is somewhat unique as most games likely won't have the stickie-ness of your products, the target audience attraction and bonding. I think I saw someone else mention how you could offer additional levels, music, abilities, lessons etc via in-app purchases (when it finally gets to GS) and I agree.

    Perhaps building a larger audience now (and forgoing revenues) may expand your audience who can be passed an upgrade later with in-app purchases to plug.
  • RattleheadRattlehead Member Posts: 485
    Wow. Personally, unless he followed up with something along the lines of what I am about to say, I would ignore him. If all he said was to 'make it free' then I can't imagine what his logic was...

    I can only see that model working - to build brand recognition - if you have a solid road map as to what is going to build off that recognition. For example, let's say that "Notes for Little Composers" is released for free and gains popularity. First off, other than the number of downloads, how are you going to know it is popular or that people are using it? Can you include a URL to request people provide feedback (or something similar to determine usage)?

    Then, if it does appear to be a used and useful piece of software, what are YOU planning to do to capitalize on that popularity?

    Will you just release V2 with some enhancements at a new, non-free price point?

    Will you release a complimentary piece of software that works side by side with "Little Composers"?

    So it's not exactly an easy question but if it were me and I were to release it for free, I'd have at least one or two applications in various stages of design that would work hand-in-hand with my educational product.

    Best of luck!

    -R-
  • RattleheadRattlehead Member Posts: 485
    simo103 said:
    Perhaps building a larger audience now (and forgoing revenues) may expand your audience who can be passed an upgrade later with in-app purchases to plug.

    Great idea provided the tools provide the ability to implement those features - which right now are nothing but vapourware - or he can move into a different suite of tools that he is capable enough to develop in (no offense meant!).
  • SlickZeroSlickZero Houston, TexasMember, Sous Chef Posts: 2,870
    He's right about making it free. Especially something that is as beneficial as teaching music to people, especially children. And after last nights Superbowl Halftime Show, we need to teach younger people the beauty and the art of music so we don't have another repeat of last nights performance with the next generation of musicians. (Jeez did y'all see that? it was horrible) If it does well when it's free, they may come to you for advertising in your app. You may not want that, but it is a possibility. And at the same time, you are trying to run a business. If it were me, I would have a free and a paid version, which is what I plan on doing for every game I make.
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  • tenrdrmertenrdrmer Member, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-Chef Posts: 9,934
    It depends on what your goal is. If its to make money then you gotta have something that is paid for. Maybe you should make everything up to this point free as a launch promo for your new app. I can only name a couple of iOS devs that have hits on the store so i'm not completely convinced in this rapid turnover type market your brand is all that important. At least not to the same degree as physical objects or expensive software.
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  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
    GREAT points to consider guys ...

    @Rattlehead,
    the only way to tell if an app is popular is to constantly monitor its rank with appannie (or another site that does this).

    Dual (free/non free) versions are getting tricker to do because Apple is encouraging "in app purchase" rather than littering their store with twins.

    @Slick 0
    I am often worried about the "next generation" too. It is sad that they have developed a "short term focus" due to the fact that their brain is consumed with useless computer games (which I am not a fan of).
    Creativity is in short supply ...

    I am still amazed that for every 1000 free downloads a handful will buy!
    Also, my last instrument, the flute is selling better than everything else combined ... which surprised me as well.

    But this time, the note apps (there are two, one for treble and one for bass clef) are for the iphone which has a huge user-base compared to the ipads which are slowly catching up.
  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
    Unfortunately, only a few of my apps have room for iAds and I don't have the pro version because I am learning Lua to reduce development cost.
    I am very curious how the note apps will do.

    I think that I will open with 99 cents and then go free when it makes sense.
  • iDeveloperiDeveloper Member Posts: 441
    "make it free" does not make since from a "professional" marketer. In fact, if that is all he said, I don't think he is a marketer.

    "Marketing" means advertising your app, not "how much" you sell it for.

    I also suggest making a "lite" (free) version with less features so people have an incentive to buy the full version.
  • PIXOMUSEPIXOMUSE Member Posts: 101
    An app for children ? With iAds in it ? Doesn't seem right ?
  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
    PIXOMUSE said:
    An app for children ? With iAds in it ? Doesn't seem right ?

    Pixomusic,
    I agree 100% ad that is why none of my music apps have it!
    Lately, I am toying with the idea of making something "like" a game which is unrelated to my music stuff but as I mentioned earlier, games are hard (for me) to do with coding so I have to stick to buttons that make sounds :)
    iDeveloper said:
    "make it free" does not make since from a "professional" marketer. In fact, if that is all he said, I don't think he is a marketer.

    "Marketing" means advertising your app, not "how much" you sell it for.

    I also suggest making a "lite" (free) version with less features so people have an incentive to buy the full version.

    Well, he is and he is also a friend who is trying to help me figure it out without too many mistakes. As you know, mistakes cost money.
    I have a free accordion which I made for the European market and Carnival season, and you are right. This is indeed helpful but the future of this one trick pony is hard to predict with Apple's goal to clean up the zoo!

    One thing I do notice and something that might be helpful for others as well is that the more apps I have, the more the sales increase. The flute is the horse that pulls the wagon right now and hopefully, the iPhone apps will continue that trend :)
  • peachpellenpeachpellen Member Posts: 977
    Hey, just popped by GS and saw this.

    The guy is in a web mindset; obviously. As someone who used to get by primarily from internet income I get it, it's good advice for 'net stuff - just not for apps.

    You also need to consider that this is a niche app, those who find it are looking for it and willing to pay - it isn't something someone would impulse download if they had no interest in the specific subject.

    Goodluck either way!

    Peach :)
  • tenrdrmertenrdrmer Member, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-Chef Posts: 9,934
    @iDeveloper. You see in marketing to be a success doesn't require instant Fame or riches. MArketing is a long term tool. And if you read the reasoning behind him saying make it free you would see his reason is Branding which is huge in the Web and Physical Product World. So I would say he's probably very good at marketing. Also as previously mentioned in this thread and others apple is pushing for no more lite versions. Also reducing functionality of the app is against apples guidelines.

    @Pixomuse I completely agree. I hate when one of his apps has in app purchases or ads
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  • SlickZeroSlickZero Houston, TexasMember, Sous Chef Posts: 2,870
    peachpellen said:

    You also need to consider that this is a niche app, those who find it are looking for it and willing to pay - it isn't something someone would impulse download if they had no interest in the specific subject.

    Goodluck either way!

    Peach :)

    Excellent point.
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  • iDeveloperiDeveloper Member Posts: 441
    @tenrdrner:

    Thanks for explaining. Also thanks for the Apple guidelines note.
  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
    WOHOOO - PP The Queen of Corona dropped by :)
    Thanks, i can always use good luck. Speaking of "thanks" ... how is your little booklet coming along?

    OK, the reason which adds to my excitement is that Apple just approved the notes app so it should surface shortly!

    Where was i?

    oh yes, marketing ...

    as soon as i find the app in the app store, i will give out promo codes as if it was Christmas :)
  • frariofrario Member Posts: 164
    His advice really is valuable, as the long tail theory suggest that you could offer an array of services and free content focused on kids learning in order to achieve a niche authority and value your paid services and products. Just check the competitors and think if there's still a place for you. But as others have mentioned, you need to come up with a solid strategy. If you need a professional consultation feel free to ask.
  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
    thanks for your input frario,
    I appreciate your insight!

    Just for a quick update ... this afternoon my mind was "replaying" parts of that meeting and I remembered a few more things that are important and therefore, I made the notes learning app free for a while because it is not the "main" attraction!
    Hopefully this way, many eyes will look at it and maybe pick up the bass clef app? Will see.

    This is a tricky game because my friend does not realize that people are getting tired quickly and move on to the next free thing.

    So for now, the bet is on getting the name out and build up Little Composers ... get traffic to the web site and make people familiar with that name!
  • EatingMyHatEatingMyHat Member Posts: 1,246
    For what it worth, I have been in around software marketing for many years and the mobile market is not the same as the traditional market. The app store is all about timing, measurement and using the platform tools, not about brands. You can see that the number of "brands" that people are searching for are very low. It is not that he is not a pro in what he does, but the rules of the app store are different and to some extent everybody are still learning.

    You should consider free only if one of the following is true:
    - You will have in-app purchases (not with GS for now...)
    - Your strategy is based on iAds (need 10's of thousands to make real money)
    - Your app is going to be heavily used and can be used as a platform to publish your new apps (most apps are not used for more than 2-4 days)

    In any case, going from paid to free is easier, the other way is hard.

    just my 2 cents...
  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
    This is the pivot point of the main problem ... as you put it: Most apps are not used for more than a few days!

    If I can solve that one, than I'm ok. If I can't, then there is no way to make a living with creating instruments for the app store.

    Hopefully I have more luck with the windows versions because many parents are searching for apps that are non violent and as you know ... there aren't that many.

    Definitely much to consider.
  • HoneyTribeStudiosHoneyTribeStudios Member Posts: 1,792
    I don't think most iphone-owning parents would mind paying $1 for a tool that helps their kid to learn music?

    So long as it has an obvious name and description and you get exposure from suitable places. Youtube vids of kids using your app sent to music learning websites? Know any schools that would post something about you?
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  • frariofrario Member Posts: 164
    xyloFUN, I think your friend was thinking about you going beyond iphone apps, and use those to advertise your other activities and make people familiar and curious about everything else, could this be the case?
  • peachpellenpeachpellen Member Posts: 977
    xyloFUN said:
    WOHOOO - PP The Queen of Corona dropped by :)
    Thanks, i can always use good luck. Speaking of "thanks" ... how is your little booklet coming along?
    Haha :P I'm actually "off" at the moment - a bit unwell, not sure what's up - probably nothing but I'm meant to be resting, so that's what I'm doing.

    Hope to get back to it soon, though :)

    Really hope your app goes well, I agree with the post shaz made above :)
  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
    shaz said:
    I don't think most iphone-owning parents would mind paying $1 for a tool that helps their kid to learn music?

    So long as it has an obvious name and description and you get exposure from suitable places. Youtube vids of kids using your app sent to music learning websites? Know any schools that would post something about you?

    Generally, that is the direction I am leaning towards to. I told him that I can picture a ton of kids on their way to piano lessons fiddling with the app in the last minute because they were supposed to practice all week!
    frario said:
    xyloFUN, I think your friend was thinking about you going beyond iphone apps, and use those to advertise your other activities and make people familiar and curious about everything else, could this be the case?

    I am not sure ... he speaks partly in a foreign language to me. "Market First" and stuff like that. He made me register every xylofun extension I could get my hands on ... etc ...
    We'll meet again maybe on Sunday?
    peachpellen said:
    Haha :P I'm actually "off" at the moment - a bit unwell, not sure what's up - probably nothing but I'm meant to be resting, so that's what I'm doing.

    Hope to get back to it soon, though :)

    Really hope your app goes well, I agree with the post shaz made above :)

    PP, Queens don't get sick!
    Some days this feels worse like playing the lottery! LOL

    In a few days, I know more I suppose. But I hate walking on thin ice!

    Than again ... there is always Egypt! LOL
  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
    Guys,
    I just downloaded and installed a 30 day trail of PRISMO (desktop tracking tool) and I LOVE IT!

    Wow ... i am richer than i think! LOL

    Seriously, this is a very clever app :)
  • frariofrario Member Posts: 164
    looks great I'm downloading right now
  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
    frario said:
    looks great I'm downloading right now

    By the looks of it, there's a $15 well spent!

    I like it and wish Apple would use something like that :)

    If you have time, would you please leave a review for the Magic Flute in your iTunes store?

    grazie,

    Ernesto
  • StormyStudioStormyStudio United KingdomMember Posts: 3,989
    @Xylo.... not read this whole thread (just the top and bottom)...

    I can see the advantage as the mass audience of a free app may like your work and if your a Pro member you could put a link to your other paid apps...the instruments.

    That said...possibly making it paid 59p for a month, will get one boost of sales, then make it free and it will get noticed on all the price tracking apps and websites and give you a second boost in sales.

    Potentially getting you up into the charts for a while twice...Once on launch and once on price drop...

    Also if it is that good an app for teachers, maybe start higher, go down to 59p then free.. giving you more attention on the price dropping websites

    good luck...
  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
    Hey stormystudio,
    good points ... i have seen bumps after price drops and it is as you say :)

    Unfortunately, with low sales, I can not justify the $500 for the pro version just to get the URL feature ... as nice as it would be.

    Currently, I am learning how to do what I do with actual code rather than drag & drop because if I want to move up a notch, my instruments have to perform quite a bit faster and as it is now, I have hit the limit with GS.
    For example, the paid version of the accordion has also an organ but when you switch to that (via scene change) you have to touch each key once so that there is no delay ... this is not good but there is nothing I can do ... i think (not sure if I can force to empty the memory and swap sounds?)

    Early this year, I have started to work on a trumpet app for the iPhone and now i'm finishing it up if I can.

    After that, I have to evaluate if there is a way to earn money from all of this .... or not :-)

    image
  • xyloFUNxyloFUN Member Posts: 1,593
    frario said:
    looks great I'm downloading right now

    I bought it this morning (only CAN $15) and it is dead on!

    I just checked with apple and the numbers are identical (math was easy because of the lack of high values ;)

    One of the better finds out there for sure!
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