When to use Vector Vs Pixels
snowmaan
Member Posts: 6
Ok, here are my questions.
1. if vector graphics are so great, because you can resize quickly and easily without losing quality, then why use Pixelmator or Photoshop.
I.e. if you develop a game about, say a banana who runs around shooting bad guys, surely you will have various sizes of the character. I.e. main game start / options screen, splash screen, main game screen etc
Do most of you just draw the graphics in say Inkscape / Illustrator etc, then use in your game, or export to photoshop, pixelmator etc to retouch it, because they have better drawing / enhancing tools?
Or do you just use one or the other
Am just learning vector drawing with Inkscape and have bought Pixelmator today, and figuring out where they both sit I guess.
Looking also for a good animation program, so I can animate my characters for game intros, promo videos etc, so appreciate any thoughts
1. if vector graphics are so great, because you can resize quickly and easily without losing quality, then why use Pixelmator or Photoshop.
I.e. if you develop a game about, say a banana who runs around shooting bad guys, surely you will have various sizes of the character. I.e. main game start / options screen, splash screen, main game screen etc
Do most of you just draw the graphics in say Inkscape / Illustrator etc, then use in your game, or export to photoshop, pixelmator etc to retouch it, because they have better drawing / enhancing tools?
Or do you just use one or the other
Am just learning vector drawing with Inkscape and have bought Pixelmator today, and figuring out where they both sit I guess.
Looking also for a good animation program, so I can animate my characters for game intros, promo videos etc, so appreciate any thoughts
Comments
Sometimes there's some cross-over... like you can use type in Photoshop / Pixelmator... and you can import pictures and textures into programs like illustrator.
GameSalad does not support vector artwork, or custom true-type fonts, so any vector artwork is simply converted to PNG... a raster-image format.
DL
If you are doing a semi photo realistic game then photoshop or pixelmator would probably be better. However as Photics said there is some crossover.
I was most comfortable with photoshop but when I tried a few of the same things in illustrator I found the result much better for my non-photo based game.
There are 2 main ways to produce artwork for you game:
1. Using a 2d drawing application
2. Using a 3d software
Both ways have their pros and cons and with both you can do any type of artwork (doodle, realistic, cartoon...)
1. Using a 2d drawing application
There are 2 types of drawing methods, raster - photoshop and scalar - illustrator but at the end, in GS you will import a raster image.
The advantage of using vectors to create the artwork is that you can easily scale it up or down and it will still look ok while if you try to scale up a raster image it will get blurry and the only solution is to redraw the image at a bigger scale.
The downside of vectors is that you are limited in the tools you have to create the artwork. Drawing shapes, using solid colours and gradients are pretty much all you can use.
PRO
- easy to learn, tons of free tutorials on the internet
- fewer steps to make something
- very fast to produce certain types of artwork, specially doodle
- on average they cost less
CONS
- some types of artwork are very hard to produce like drawing a realistic artwork - I'm not talking about photo realistic where you can just take a photo and tweak it... more like if you need to make something with realistic shadows, shades, reflection...
- making animation is very slow and restrictive. It may be ok for doodle type of games or for simple cartoon characters but thy anything more complex and you will have a lot of problems
- raster type of artwork uses a destructive work-flow most of the time. For example you animated a character (you draw all the frames) but then you decide that you want to change the head or the legs, the only solution is the redraw the entire animation.
2. Using a 3d software.
It's the way I do it because I work as a 3d artist so I didn't had to learn a 3d app just for GS. You can view some of my work here: www.vimeo.com/channels/adrianlazar3d
The main advantages for me are the non-destructive work-flow, easy to reuse an asset and better results for realistic artwork compared to a 2d drawing app.
PRO
- once you learn it you can get very realistic results
- cartoon characters are also really easy to create using cell shaders
- animation is easy to make
- the entire work-flow is pretty much non-destructive. If you animated a character walk but than you decide that you want to change the head, to make it bigger of totally different, you remodel the head but the animation is still valid, you don't lose your work if you need to go back and change stuff. Of course there are exception but most of the times can be easily avoided with some careful planing.
- easy to reuse artwork and animation. Once you made an walk cycle animation you can reuse it on all the characters, you won't need to animate each character again, except if it has a very different animation but even in this case you can alter the old one so you won't have to start from scratch.
CONS
- takes longer to learn even if today there are tons of free tutorials
- can require a fast workstation especially if you plan to render realistic characters with fur for example
- very expensive on average thou blender is free and more powerful than some of it's pricey competitors
- can take longer to produce artwork because you need to go through several steps until the final render but the flexibility and quality makes it work in my opinion. About the steps you can see here an quite old post of mine about the work-flow: http://noisyfishgames.wordpress.com/geek-talk/building_a_3d_character_iphone/
- can be hard to produce doodle types of games
But in the end my advice is that you should use whatever tool you feel comfortable with and it's up to you if it's worth spending the time to learn a 3d app.
What an excellent thread also, as I am sure a lot of others like myself are in exactly the same boat, so this would be a good one to continue the discussion on, and tips and tricks along the way
Once the kids go to bed lol, I'll reread all this and see what questions pop up also.
LAdrian I love your work, that's fantastic.
What 3D app(s) do you use to create your work?
If it's expensive, which I assume it is, can one get similar results with free or lower cost apps?
Also guys, any comments on this product?
http://illusionmage.com/index3.htm
Makes some big claims on results, at a low price.
Might be good but gees the page looks like one of those get rich quick internet scams, and I can't find any reviews on the product, apart from the ones the guy does himself
DL
PS- Hope that made sense.
Yep, might contact the developer and ask a few questions, then give it a go.
AjBlue, that sounds reasonable, re memory usage for vectors
"most people just import to photoshop to make it the size they want and to convert it to png so it can be used. "
I thought it would be the other way around, draw a vector to the size you want in say inkscape, then export it as a png to photoshop / pixelmator etc, to pretty it up and send to gamesalad
I might do one game for ipod touch / iphone but then make a ipad version, hence wondering if it's better to use vector for the characters, backgrounds etc.
From what others have said, it seems vectors are good for cartoon and say stick based games and for say, beautiful games with creativity and flare, ps or pixelmator
If I was doing a game such as angry birds, or Arch Angel for example, the models seem like, I would guess, be designed and drawn on PS or pixelmator? Yes I know Angry Birds isn't a gamesalad game, just giving an example, as it has a semi static set background ,which would change depending on level, which is similar to what I will be looking at in a sense, but different gameplay of course.
Be interested in thoughts from others anyway on the other points.
http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=4995
That's the link to the Arch Angel game
He did his first game his own way, then used gamesalad for the second version of it.
Both great games, based on great concept
That Illusion Mage is a scam. Anyone who reads it, don't buy it, and if there's someone you can report it to for fraudulent practice, do so.
http://www.katsbits.com/smforum/index.php?topic=215.0
Scammers like that should be locked up.
He is making money reselling Blender 3D as his own package and spamming ads all over the net.
What a joke.
That's the thing, at the end, no matter how are you going to produce your artwork (2d, raster, vector, 3d) you will export it as normal image. That's why it doesn't matter because you can put anything in that image. What matters is how fast and how good but also how comfortable are you with the tools.
I'm using Softimage and currently I'm learning Sidefx Houdini but the free Blender can do almost everything those software do and if I would have to learn a 3d software just for making artwork for games I would definitely learn Blender. One software I would say stay away from in 3dsmax, while it is most spread among beginner is crap and you will end up regretting learning it
Btw, Illusion Mage, from a legal point of view is not doing anything wrong, the license under which Blender in made allows this. But from a moral perspective, yeah they should be shot for charging for something that's free.
I think I will star with blender and see how I go.
The challenge is trying to do this with a FT job, and two young kids. Learning Inkscape now, Pixelmator next, gamesalad after that and Blender in between.
No easy task there I guess.
I assume there's a few out there in the same position though?